In this video, Rupert engages in a conversation about the nature of happiness and awareness. They discuss the concept of ‘sat chit ananda’ and delve into the experience of deep sleep, where pure bliss (Ananda) is felt without objects. They explore metaphors emphasizing the shift in perception from object-ness to pure awareness. The discussion highlights the understanding that experience itself remains unchanged, but our perception and focus determine the prominence of objects or the knowingness of awareness.
Timestamps: 00:00 Is Ananda ever present? 02:26 What the separate self really is 03:19 Does happiness come and go or is it constant? 04:28 Can we choose our state of happiness 07:09 The reality of objects ‘its object-ness’ seems to fade 08:06 Understanding object-ness with a metaphor 10:30 Does experience change?
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Hi, Rupert.
I'd like to
first
remember
during the first meditation we did here together,
was it Monday? No, Sunday evening,
you elaborated on
Satchitananda, and you were, I think,
talking about deep sleep.
where Ananda is really being felt
very
without objects, and it shines, and it's our true nature, and it's eternally there.
And then you said, by the way,
there's one thing in what I said that you might object to, is that that Ananda doesn't seem to be there all the time.
And at the end of this retreat, which is more or less now,
I hope you will
better
understand that contradiction.
Do you remember that?
Yeah, the test was going to be tomorrow morning.
I was going to ask you right there and then on,
you know, Sunday evening, but you know,
Ananda doesn't seem to be ever-present, always there.
And I think that you already answered her question.
What's your experience now? Is it ever-present now? Do you have a better understanding of that? But the question was this,
if my essential nature is
happiness, and
my
essential nature is ever-present, then happiness must be ever-present. And if that is the case,
how come I don't seem to experience it all the time? That was the question.
So now what's the answer? I get to do the questioning, you get to do the answering.
Well, you just mentioned that it goes through every thought, and that ocean is in the waves,
water is in the waves
throughout, and so it really,
it's only the individual
separated self who
could
possibly turn around and say, I'm separate again, and I've forgotten that. Yes, you see, the
the separate self is like that part of the earth that is turned away from the Sun and
seems to be in darkness.
That's what the separate self is.
So from the point of view of that separate self, there is darkness, which in this metaphor is unhappiness,
where the peace of our true nature seems not to be present, the light of the Sun is not present on the dark side of
the earth.
Yes?
So it is from the point of view of the separate self, the imaginary self, that has in its own
imagination
separated itself
from its source. From that one's point of view,
happiness seems to be an experience that comes and goes.
Every time that one
reaches its object, it dies as a separate self, and then happiness shines.
Then the thought-made self rises again, and
happiness is dimmed. As a result, it goes out after an object or relationship.
It gets what it wants. It dies as a seeking self. Happiness shines.
Thought
attributes the happiness to the object. The separate self is recreated.
Happiness is dimmed. And this process goes on
ad infinitum. That is why for the separate self, happiness is a state that comes and goes.
It's not. Actually, the Sun is always shining. It's the earth that is
sometimes turned towards it and
rotates and turns away from it. So unhappiness is that part of the earth that is turned away from the Sun,
which in our metaphor is the arising of the separate self.
That part of our self which ignores or veils or forgets our true nature.
So what is for awareness
continuous happiness, or rather ever-present happiness, is
experienced by the separate self as a state that comes and goes.
So if we have the freedom to choose either
to be the presence of awareness, in which case peace is continuous, or to be a separate self, in which case it is
intermittent.
We're free to be whichever we want.
I was thinking, when talking to someone during lunchtime about a metaphor that just popped up,
I was wondering what you would say about that. A new metaphor? Great.
But better than the self-aware screen? I doubt it.
But I'm open to possibilities.
No, no, it's not that kind of metaphor, but it's like in the beginning our understanding
and the moments that we realize we are the light and not the earth that turns away or not. It's like
my metaphor was about soup.
Soup, yeah. And in the beginning you have
watery soup, very light with vegetables and stuff which are the objects.
And the accent is so much on the object that from time to time you get a glimpse of
oh, I'm the watery substance and the vegetables, they're in there, but not really
you know
the water. So, but my experience, I was wondering about that in fact, is that the soup tends to thicken
over time and
that
you,
this kind of what I called mirror substance, or you call it the aware screen substance,
tends to become more
like thickening of the soup, like more prevalent. Even though you never see it, you never feel it because you are it, but still
it somehow
manifests
more. Is it possible? Yes. I was wondering what you're... Yes, yes. Or is this maybe another?
No, but that's
that's right. Not quite sure about the metaphor, but
Sorry, and I hope nobody's hungry.
But you're absolutely right in that
when we look at experience
where we previously
saw a
collection of objects themselves, the objectness of the object
seems to fade and
its reality
which is pure awareness seems to
shine
more brightly in
correspondence with the fading of the objectness of the object.
So,
but what's
what's interesting is that the actual experience itself doesn't change. I'm sorry, I'm going to go back to my metaphor
which I prefer to yours,
which is that
the TV screen and the image. And I hope by now you've understood that I use
the TV screen and the image in two different ways.
One time it's a conventional TV screen with an image and it's being watched by somebody sitting on a sofa.
At other times I use it, it's the screen itself that is doing the watching. So in this case,
it's a conventional TV screen, the movie begins, we're sitting on the sofa.
Now you're looking at what appears to be the landscape and
gradually the
you realize that what is real in the image are not
fields and
rocks and trees and sky. What is real is the screen. So as you're looking
you
you begin
to focus on the screen
rather than the landscape. Actually, you're looking at exactly the same thing, but the
landscaped, the landscape-ness of the image
seems to fade and the screen-ness, its reality, seems to come forward.
So instead of thinking
it's a landscape with a screen in the background, you think it's a screen with a landscape in the background.
So in that sense, yes, there is a kind of exchange.
Instead of objects shining in experience, and by objects I mean thoughts, sensations and perceptions.
I don't just mean physical objects. I mean anything. Instead of the object-ness of the thought, sensation and perception being
primary with awareness off in the background somewhere, it's the knowing of
experience, the knowingness that pervades all experience, that seems to come to the foreground. That's the first
experience
shines primarily with that knowing and the
object-ness of the thought, sensation or perception is just a temporary coloring. It's just like a
watercolor wash over the ever-present light of pure knowing.
But experience itself doesn't change. It was actually always only that.
But and then, so it's like
we could then look at, say in
looking at physical objects now, we could, it's like feeling, instead of feeling that they shine with the light of the physical sun,
instead of thinking it's the sun that renders them visible,
we realize no, it is the light of awareness that renders them
knowable or experienceable.
So instead of seeing the reflections of physical light, we see all this as reflections of
the light of pure knowing,
that this knowing
shines in experience.
That's what we see first and that's what we stick to in experience.
In order to stick to an object, you have to first forget that knowing. As
we forget that knowing, at that moment the objects seem to acquire their own
independent existence and we want some and we don't want others. But we have to first
forget or overlook this knowing. It never really
gets forgotten or overlooked, but it seems to from the point of view of the self that we have imagined ourselves to be.
Yeah, I have to admit that your way of putting it is clearer than the soup.