Mackenzie Carpenter on Writing with Megan Moroney, Meeting Dolly Parton & Why You Need to be Cringe

It's very easy to like give up on this dream because nobody is forcing you to live your dream. There's a lot of like misconceptions about I want to be a singer and then like what that actually means. There's pictures of me with a microphone in my hand and it's like bigger than my head and I'm just like singing at church but I'm like this is how did I even get there? You have to be cringe. Like if you have this like dream of something that you want to do, I think it's pretty rare that you can get there without embarrassing yourself. Can you share some of the songs that you've written? >> So honestly, basically like the whole rest of my catalog that's like cut is just like Megan [ __ ] and we wrote Indifferent, 28th of June, and the girls all in the same day. >> What does it mean to like learn how to write a song? >> That's actually such a good question. >> Yeah, I'm like actually curious. Literally no idea. Like, you know, I feel like people in country music, they're so like forward with their personalities and like their life and everything. And maybe I'm just like not in the know, but there's so many like pop artists and I'm like, but like who are you? I love your music, but like >> what do you do? You are the one that has to wake yourself up every day and be like, "This is what I want. This is what I'm going after. Like, this is my dream." You have to like keep yourself in it. Hi, house guest. Welcome back to my home. This week, our house guest is Mackenzie Carpenter, singer, songwriter, country music star. She has her album that was actually released this year, Hey Country Queen. That is so good. She's also written some of my personal opinion, like my favorite Moroni songs. So many songs. Honestly, she's just so talented and she's such a nice girl. Like, this is a really good little catchup. We're getting to know her. I'm asking a little bit about her life, her journey. She also brings up my favorite point, one of my favorite points, which is you have to do things that embarrass you to like live a life that you know is worth living. Like everything that I do today is probably embarrassing and will embarrass me later, but it's getting me to the life that I want and I think you guys are just going to really like this episode. We're also, spoiler alert, talking Dolly Parton. I'm not going to spoil anything else, but it actually was really fabulous and incredible and she's amazing. I think you guys are going to love her. I'm currently in this exact moment regretting like, you know, you make dinner plans and like it was my idea. I have no one to blame besides myself, guys. Like, it was literally me. Like, I'm the one who initiated these dinner plans, okay? And I said, "Let's get dinner Thursday. Great idea. Whatever." And then like now it's Thursday and like I don't want to get dinner. I want to be in bed with like my sweatpants and socks and pajama. Like, I don't want to do that. I want to be needle pointing in bed. I should know that about myself. Like, you guys would be able to tell me that I'd want to do that. Like, I should know myself better. So anyway, I hope you guys are having um a fabulous, fabulous Thursday and I hope you guys enjoy our country music singer, songwriter, star, Mackenzie Carpenter. Welcome to my home. Welcome to House Guest. >> Y >> I'm so excited to have you here. We're denim girls today. >> We are. How did I know? >> I know. We're like actually matching. We're kind of twins. Love >> the same shade and everything. >> I know. It's amazing. I wanted to start out the episode doing some dinner card questions with you. Okay. >> Because I normally don't record at 400 p.m. This feels a little crazy. normally. >> When do you go? >> We record at like 10 or 12 and >> A.M. >> Yeah. >> Isn't that kind of crazy? >> That is wild. >> But I'm feeling a little wild recording. >> Late night. This is your late night version. >> This is late night for me. This is late night for me. Um, okay. So, we're going to play some dinner cards. >> Okay. >> First one. If you can make one thing illegal, what would it be? >> Oh my gosh. Just anything. >> Mhm. That's so tough. It doesn't have to be serious. Like I You know what I absolutely hate? When people wear open toeed shoes and their feet slide out of them. >> Oh, >> you know what I'm talking about. If your toes are like past the end of your sandal or your shoe, like illegal. >> It's enough. Also, >> like the feeling of that. No, thank you. >> Yeah. No. >> Absolutely not. >> Terrifying. Um, okay. What is your dream way to spend a morning? H you know we actually have this joke me and my husband him and his family they call them leisurely mornings or just be like yeah and then you'll have a leisurely morning but it's like you're up by 8 you're doing a workout you're doing that and I'm like that's not leisurely to me like my leisurely morning my dream morning would be a real leisurely morning where I can sleep in until I wake up and then maybe get in a workout, get a nice like full shower, hair looking good, just like know where to be. I love having nowhere to be. >> Same. >> Something like that. >> I like not leaving my house and having no one call me and having like no expectations around me for that day. >> Yeah, >> that's like the ideal. >> That's the dream. >> That is the dream. Would you rather go into space or into the ocean? >> Ooh, you know, I think the ocean. There's like so much going on down there. And like what if I found out that mermaids were real? I figured you were going to say into the ocean because that question typically people who say they'd rather go into the ocean are people who like kind of avoid they're more avoidance and they like run from their issues and they don't really want to go deep as much. >> So who fact check fact check who told you that? >> Uh no I saw it I I saw it on TikTok once. Um no I'm just kidding. One of my friends said, "But people who want to go into the ocean, like they're more like introspective and they're more," which like makes sense as a songwriter. >> Wait, so you're saying space is avoidant? >> Yes. >> And ocean is more like let's peel back these layers. >> Yeah. Like you want to know more of like why people are the way they are, why you are the way, you know what I mean? Hey, it checks out for me. >> So I feel like it really adds up. >> Yeah. One time I went um scuba diving in Hawaii. >> That like freaks me out. >> No, it actually is crazy. Honestly, I think being the youngest of just I have older brothers. They've always forced me to do things outside my comfort zone. And so, our whole family was getting scuba certified and I was like, I have no desire to do this, but everyone's doing it, so I'm going to do it. And there's this part where you have to like clear your mask underwater and I was like, I can't do it. I can't do it. Like, I'm giving up. And my brothers are like, you're doing this. Like, get it together. And I made it through. We end up in this trip in Hawaii. I'm scubaing. But you have to like put your tank on, walk out to the beach with your tank on, which is like >> as big as I am. And then we were doing a night dive, so it's dark. But it was actually the coolest thing I've ever seen. There are all these little animals that you can like see through and they're like glowing. And we saw this like huge turtle. It was like 300 years old or something. So I think that like sparked my curiosity for the ocean where I'm like, if I could just dig deeper, what could I find? >> So let me get this straight. You're in the ocean when it's dark out. >> Yeah. And you're not scared? >> No, you're terrified. But that same trip, we went on a deeper dive with mana rays in the dark. >> See, that's just not for me. >> Yeah. No, it's kind of crazy. But I would never be like, I'm going to plan this trip where I'm going to go do that. But I guess I just have like an adventurous family. >> Yeah. You're just following their lead. >> So I'm just like, I'm here. I guess I'm going. >> My family is like whatever the opposite of adventurous is. You know, people always ask like, "Do you have like a turkey trot family?" >> Okay, here's the crazy thing is that like I don't have a turkey trot family, but like I kind of want to be a turkey trot family. >> Honestly, like I'm kind of getting into that. >> Yeah. I like that vibe. >> I do too. Like let's get up, let's go, let's do it. Yeah. >> God forbid. I like the idea of a turkey trot. I really do. >> I like the idea. And I like the vest that I picture myself wearing over the shirt that you get every year. Like I'm like, what are we going to wear for the turkey trot? And I like the what I imagine the feeling would be after you complete the turkey taw and everyone else is like hung over from blackout Wednesday and you completed the turkey t and you have this adrenaline and you're ready to like rip a turkey leg. >> You feel better than everyone else. Like you got a great coffee. It's cold out. The leaves are Oh, it's amazing. Like I I think I like I think I like the personality that I would develop the day I'm doing it if I try. >> I love that. >> Do you run? Um, you know, that's a great question. So, I enjoy running. It's another thing. I guess I'm not very self-motivating. I'm like reflecting on everything I'm saying and I'm like, "Huh, we should get to the bottom of this." But I do like to run, but I can't run by myself. >> Like, I need a pacer or someone to chat with. So, like in the fall, me and my girls get more into running. We'll like meet at the park, go for runs. But I actually um I just finished a tour with Jordan Davis and one of the most fun shows we played was in Boston and I had some friends come and they were training for the Chicago Marathon which I'm like that I'm not that kind of runner but they're like yeah we're just going to run like five miles. And I was like well I don't think I can do that but if you want to like route it so I can come back in like two. But then I ended up running four miles cold turkey that day and I was like, should I sign up for a half marathon? >> No, actually congrats. And yes, you should. >> Or should we do a turkey trot? Like I don't know. Like there's a lot of things swirling around. There's like a lot of ways this could go. >> Yes. So I know that we just met, but like one thing about me is that every interest that I have, I make my entire personality. Like always like I look very all or nothing. I got into running last year. I got into running last year, but by that I mean like I was training to run a 10K. Like I wasn't I couldn't just like get up and do that. Like that was not >> Do you have like an app or a coach or how did you go? >> Oh, thank you for asking actually. Um I had an app Nike Run Club. Coach Bennett. He's my everything. I'm obsessed with him. I have like I posted about this man so much. >> Like he's just like dad vibes that girls will be like I get DMs from girls almost weekly being like, "Oh my god, I just met Coach Bennett. You're going to die." I'm like, "I'm so in person. Yeah, cuz he does like running meetup stuff. He works for Nike. I think he lives in Portland. He's yet to acknowledge. We're all obsessed with him. He's acknowledged us. He's commented on a couple TikToks, but I my like best friend met him. We're like obsessed. But >> I got to look him up. >> He's really good for like motivational running. >> You know who my like fitness king is? >> Who? >> Cody from Pelaton. >> Oh yes. >> Obsessed with him. He like gets me going because I'll be like, I can't do this anymore and then he makes some funny comment and I'm like >> like if anybody saw me through the window on my Pelon, it would it's like a little embarrassing. >> No, I love that. Also, he's just the best. He has good energy. He gives me good vibes. >> Okay, let's talk about you. >> Let's take it all the way back. Like you grew up with like a very musical family. It feels like you guys kind of had like a family band going there for a bit. >> It may seem that way. I guess it it kind of could come off that way. When I was growing up, my dad was a pastor and so we all just like very quickly started like joining the church band, which I feel like is just like what you PK pipeline. >> Yeah. You just like, oh, I'm going to start singing and my brother starts playing the drums, my brother starts playing the guitar, then we all kind of like join the band, whatever. And the funny part is then people are like, well, if y'all picked that up, like are your parents musical? And they actually met, they were in a singing group together in college. >> That's really sweet. But the funny part is like if you heard them sing, >> you would be like, "Huh?" >> It's just a really interesting interesting that they did that. >> But I just say that they're like really good like choir singers, you know, like they're not necessarily like solo singers, but we've kind of just >> they're great in a group with a lot of other people who are just loud. >> They have great energy. But um my mom's best friend also swears like when my dad first started this church that he was preaching at that he would like lead the worship and do the sermon and like every time he would sing, she said she was just like so moved that she was brought to tears >> and that was God moving. >> I know. Like so I guess that was like was that like his talent or was that like the Lord? Like I don't know. But my grandmother also she like loved to write poetry and she played piano and like her and her sister and her dad they were all kind of musical. like my great aunt, my papa, my great-grandfather. So, we kind of just say it all like trickled down and maybe if everybody had a little bit, we like got a big amount of their little bit. So, I guess technically it is like a pretty musical family. Like growing up my brothers taught me how to play guitar once they learned they taught me how to play piano. My dad's the one that was like, "You have to learn how to write songs if you want to like try this." And then we just like loved good oldfashioned country music and we're from a very small town where there's nothing to do. So then we would have these like back porch hoot nannies and like my uncle and my cousins and my like all of our family and neighborhood would just come over and we would just like play country music into the middle of the night and like everyone's just like playing whatever they're sitting on like strumming whatever they got. And that's kind of how I fell in love with country music, I would say. >> At what point in your life did you realize you wanted to go into music? >> Well, it's very interesting to think about that question in my brain because grew up literally singing. Like there's pictures of me with a microphone in my hand when it's like bigger than my head and I'm just like singing at church, but I'm like this is how did I even get there, you know? Like I couldn't have been good, you know? Like I >> But it was probably sweet. >> Yeah. away in a manger, something like that. But I never really like thought about anything else. But I just thought something was going to happen. Like I swore someone was going to show up like at my talent show and be like, >> "She's a star." >> Yeah. They were >> put her in the limousine. Like let's take her or like see me at the mall. Like I don't know why that was a thing that did that happen to Justin Bieber. >> Okay. I think it was discovered on YouTube. But >> okay, my bad. I need to know who this has happened to because every kid had this fantasy. >> It's a thing. >> But I think it's just a scam, right? >> Well, you know what I actually do? I think is it like Emily Donado? There's one model. >> Well, she discovered cuz they do have their fashion shows on Dillards. >> Yes, there is someone that I and I actually I think it was someone who came on the podcast like years ago. There was there's someone who's very very successful that actually was discovered in a mall and like it's going to come to me after the fact. But other than that, I do think the mall things are scams. So >> yeah, I'm I really don't know. But I somehow someway, I thought that was going to happen to me. And so that did not happen. And kind of the thing about my dad saying he just could see I was going to pursue it no matter what. And so that's when he was like, you have to write songs. Like you don't just show up and like sing. You have to like learn how to bring something to the table. And so, um, then we found like I I never thought like I'm going to move to Nashville and like be a country star. I was just like someone's going to discover me and I'm going to be fine. And then that didn't happen. And so Nashville was kind of like I don't know. It it was never like my dream, but then as soon as I got here, like I knew it was where I was supposed to be. And like I can't imagine being anywhere else. >> What does it mean to like learn how to write a song? Like as for you know all us lay people who have no idea how to write a song like how how do you learn how to write a song? >> That's actually such a good question. >> Yeah. Like actually curious. Literally no idea. >> No, cuz I think I'm still learning. But I think you've got quite a few really successful hits. I I think that you I mean we're all learning. Sure. But I think you're good. >> Thank you. I literally I think it takes being a little cringe and a little shameless. And I'm glad that that stage happened so early for me. Not that I'm never going to do anything cringe or like whatever again. But like I my grandmother passed away. That was like the poet and this and she sang and we inherited like as a family her grand piano. And so I would just go like after school sit in this room that was just a grand piano and I would just like be like you broke my heart. Yeah. Like I would just sit there and like play these chords and like write these songs that were like I was so obsessed with Adele. And I remember this one song I thought was like such a hit and it was like D and it was like break we're breaking up this that and the other and then I ended it with like and now my love for you is dead >> and I was like smash smash and so um and you're like why why is no one discovering discovering me? I literally have a talent show like woohoo over here. >> Woo. And so I just like I started doing that and then I would like play it for my family. I'd play it for my friends. Like I was that girl. And thankfully um I guess the song just kept getting like better. Like I I think maybe I would like read people's reactions and be like I could tweak this, I could tweak that. And um I started like posting stuff online. And then I moved to Nashville and that was when I had like my first coowrite. And I will say like in the first couple of years I was here. I feel like just by showing up here and getting in the room with people that I got in the room with, I feel like you just like learn by doing. Like you have to be willing to put yourself out there and try it. But the people that I would like sit across from like this and like hear the way they wrote songs or what they would come up with like that that was very like shaping for me and helped push me in the right direction. I feel like >> I think you bring up a really good point about how like everyone's a little cringe at first. You almost need it. You have to be cringe if you want to do like if you have this like dream of something that you want to do. I think it's pretty rare that you can get there without embarrassing yourself. >> Yeah. No, like it's so interesting to see. My friend and I were just having this conversation about like being an opener on a tour and like you see these videos like literally yesterday I saw this video of Sabrina Carpenter and somebody posted and it's like this cost me $50 to see her like however many years ago and it's like some random club you're right there like completely different look completely different vibe and it's like now she is like who she is and you never know like who that's going to happen for but she had to show up to those first shows and dates and play them and like get the reps and like learn herself and learn her voice and like keep exercising the muscle to get to where she is. >> Totally. >> No matter like I'm not saying those shows were like cringe, but it's like I'm you know you're in that phase where like you have to show up and just like keep growing and learning even if it comes off as cringe at the time. >> And also it's like not exactly what you want it to look like. Like obviously you see Sabrina Carpenter show now and like >> the production value alone is like the most insane thing I've ever se it looks so I mean aside from like eras like it's one of the best shows like ever >> and like even just like production wise and like she's just like on a stage there's nothing else happening like you have to you have to just like make something like exist like they say like make it exist and then make it perfect. Like I feel like that's more of the >> 100% like right now as an opener like sometimes you have a spotlight, sometimes you don't. Like there everyone else's crap is like behind you. Like sometimes it's covered up, sometimes like their name is like the logo. Like you just got to go like pay your dues. Yeah. And it's also character building. >> Yeah. 100%. >> 100%. I want to talk about you because you got discovered off Tik Tok essentially, right? You could say that. So, you kind of did have someone just like discover you at a time show. >> Wait, wait, actually, maybe you're rewriting my story. >> No, seriously, you kind of did. Like, you were posting Tik Tok videos. What were videos were you posting at the time? >> So, I moved to Nashville. I went to Belmont and I didn't know like how to do anything except I was like, I got to learn to write songs. Like, how do I learn to write songs? And so, I would just like show up to I would do my classes, whatever. I would show up and write with whoever I could write with. And that's when I got here and I discovered like what a writer's round was. >> But have you like gone to any while you've been here? >> So I feel like a lot of people outside of Nashville don't know, but it's like you come here and like all these songwriters songwriters will just show up and they like sing their songs and tell the stories behind the songs and sometimes it's like super famous songs. You're like, I didn't even know you wrote that. And so I would just start like playing songwriter rounds and like meeting people. It's a great way to network. And so I would just go play these writers rounds and then I started just taking little clips of those of me just like playing at a writer's round and putting up these songs that I had written because I had never recorded a song. I didn't have a record deal. I didn't have a manager. I didn't have a publisher. Like I was just like here writing songs. And so um actually I could backtrack a second. I wrote this song for with an artist named Lily Rose called Villain. and she was literally working night shift at the Under Armour at the time and we were just like riding whenever we could and then she put her song on Tik Tok and it like popped off. She got a record deal like her whole life changed. So I was like I got to start posting on Tik Tok. So then I'm like, "Okay, I got to post these clips of my songs and see what happens." And I had like a lot of songs kind of like get some good numbers, start to pop off. But it was kind of like now what, you know? And then I had this one song called Can't Nobody. And it was kind of like my biggest most viral song. And once you kind of I feel like hit a certain number on there, like somehow people just like get your phone number. They just like find it somehow. >> Oh wow. >> And it's like, "Oh, hey." And I literally remember picking up my phone one day and um being like, "Hey, um this is Scott Borchetta and I want to meet with you. I heard about this song that you have like, do you want to get together?" And I literally was like, "I'm being pranked. I'm being pranked." >> Sorry 67. >> Yeah, but it was real. And um here I am today. I just got to release my debut album. and Can't Nobody Body ended up being the very first song that I ever like professionally recorded, professionally released, and it made my Grand Old Opry debut with me. So, it definitely made its mark. >> It did what it needed to do. >> Yeah. Thank God. >> Can you explain because within like especially in Nashville, I what I like so much about country music is that >> within Nashville at least, you like songwriters in general like they're I feel like they're a lot more known. And maybe that's just cuz I'm here. >> Not maybe not like respect. I respected too. I don't know. Maybe it also is just cuz I'm here versus like being in LA. I live there. But I just feel like in Nashville like songwriters even though you might not like to the outside world they don't know who these people are but in Nashville like a lot of people >> there's like a reverence. >> Yes. >> Wouldn't you agree versus other genres of music? >> I definitely agree. But I also agree that like >> before I moved here, I don't know that I had that. >> And then I moved here and I just like got in the room with people and saw what they could do and like I went to rounds and I was like, "Oh, I thought that that person just wrote that song. I didn't know that you did and that you had a part in that." And so I do think that this is a town that very much has like reverence for songwriters and like the stories they bring to the table. But I think like it has that for artists too. And I haven't spent as much time in LA to know. >> I think it might just be because country music is so like storytelling focused. Maybe that's why. Yes. Like I I don't I don't know. And maybe just cuz like I that's my favorite genre. But it is cool because having like friends in the industry, I it's just like been cool to like see things and learn. >> But to like a listener who's not obviously like living in Nashville or like around >> say a name and they're probably like what? But can you explain like the difference between like a publishing deal and a record deal? I think that that is a good because you also like I feel like you are obviously your own artist and like doing your own music, but you're also like very known as a songwriter. >> Thank you. >> It's like amazing. Thank you. Um, okay. So, when I first moved to town, I feel like all I wanted was a I don't know actually. I feel like I just really wanted a publishing deal because I was like I feel like you're always told it starts with the songs and like your career is built off of your songs and so that's why I just like focused in on that so much. And so basically a publishing deal is where you would get signed and you would basically get paid to write songs whether they're like for yourself or for somebody else. And then the record deal is where you get paid to be the artist and you could write songs or not. And there's a lot of people here like the publishing deals in general. I feel like people just don't really know about that. Like I didn't know much about that until I like started to have friends in country music and I was like, "Oh, this is like a whole new world." >> It's like getting a book deal. >> Yeah. Actually, literally like books. >> Can you share some of the songs that you've written because that are Let's do starting with obviously like recorded by other people because obviously they would know. So, honestly, the funny part is I feel like Villain was like my first taste of that and then basically like the whole rest of my catalog that's like cut is just like Megan [ __ ] Like I'm like actually I might need to branch out and like write for other people, but I feel like a lot of times now I'm focusing on like writing for her or writing for myself. And so I think one of the first songs that we ever wrote together, my brother always like tells me that I'm wrong cuz I thought it was Hair Salon, but he thinks that it's Nothing Crazy, which is a duet that we put out, >> but also is so funny. We need to like circle back to that song later because it's so good. >> Wait, which one? >> Nothing crazy. >> Oh, okay. We could go now. >> Well, I just love it because I think every girl in the world can relate to this song. >> I know. It is great. The Pinterest line is everything to me. >> It's so good. If you guys don't know the song, you need to go listen to it. But it's essentially like you meet a guy and it's like, >> "Oh, he doesn't want anything serious." You're like, "I'm cool. No worries." And then it's like, "Hey JK, I just planned our whole wedding." >> Yeah. It's amazing. It's really funny. >> Yeah. And so I think we she he swears that that was the first song that our little like squad ever wrote. But who's who does the squad consist of and how did this squad start? >> Yes. Good question. So I grew up a little bit outside of Athens in a town called Hull and Megan went to UG. And so I went to this one high school. My brother went to a different high school. And at his high school there was this guy named Kyle Clark. And Kyle was like the music guy at his high school. And I was like the music girl at my high school. And so somehow we meet up and we're like, "Oh, like you do music? You do music? Yeah, we should collaborate." And then he knew Megan and I don't know how him and Megan met. But one day he's like, "Oh, you know, we should all write together." And so they literally came over to my parents house on the back porch and we like wrote this song. That was the first time that we met and we me and Megan just like really hit it off. we became friends and so we kept in touch and honestly I can't remember at this point if I had moved to Nashville or not but I had either like just moved there or was about to and she was at UG blah blah blah and then eventually we both get to Nashville we keep up and we're like oh we got to like write some more songs together and at this point my brother had moved here and we were like writing together a lot and um I had recently written with this guy Ben Williams she had recently written with this guy Ben Williams so we were like oh the four of us should just like get together. And that's kind of like when you get a publishing deal, they help you figure out rooms to get in and like what your strengths are and how to like create pairs of people that are going to write great songs. And so, um, I don't know if I had a publishing deal yet at the time or I was like maybe just about to sign one. And we all got together and we started writing and we were just like very instant like collaborators and like great energy, fun vibes. like we all just like really got each other very quickly and so then we all started we call ourselves Jimmy James that is like our little geeky name and we have had a lot of success together and it's been really really cool to see but it all started with hair salon and nothing crazy and like I'm not pretty on hairon was I think on her debut EP but then um the others were on Lucky I want to say and then we were like we got to keep this thing going. And so we got together again and for her last record, it was in a matter of two days, we did like a little December retreat and we wrote Indifferent, 28th of June, and the girls all in the same day. >> So cute. >> I love Indifferent. That is the best song ever. So good. >> It's a It's a banger, honestly. It is so good. And um getting to like see her perform that song live, it's always so much fun. like people get so into it. And then we got together. So that was like two years ago. So then this last December, we got together again and we wrote a bunch of songs for her next stuff that's coming out. So there's definitely some really exciting things in the can that I cannot spill the tea on, but I'm so excited for people to hear and see what happens. When you're on a writer's retreat, like what does that actually look like? Well, everybody is different. Everyone is different, but um this this one that we just or that we did last December, we went to my parents' beach house and it was just the four of us and you kind of like can make your own schedule and vibe. And it's better when you like have already written with the people and you know like what you're doing and what your goal is. And so we all just kind of like, okay, I guess we'll write like 11 tomorrow or we'll write at 10:00 or we'll just go out to the beach and see what happens. And so that was the trip where we literally went out on the beach and like sat in beach chairs and we wrote You had to be there. And >> I love that song. >> Yes. And she was like, I really want to like write a song for Kenny for like the tour and everything. And it was just so fitting that we wrote it like on the beach. >> Is it so crazy that you have a song like that Kenny trust me? >> Oh, no. It's like actually insane. So, another fun thing about like my relationship with Megan is that um we've gotten to tour together a lot and so we get to write these songs and then I get to go literally like see people's reaction to them in person which is so cool and we were on tour on the Am I Okay tour and we were in Athens which was just like very sentimental for all of us and she played us the version of that with Kenny Chz's voice on it for the first time because the demo was originally Micah And so it literally actually like brought a tear to my eye. I was like, that's actually insane because I grew up listening to his music. He's an icon. And so to have him like singing on a song that we wrote was it was very surreal. >> Okay, this is a weird like comparison because the songs actually are not even that similar. But you had to be there for whatever reason gives me like similar feelings to like very early Taylor Swift of like I'm only me when I'm with you. like not even necessarily the meaning of the song and it doesn't even sound similar. I don't know why I just had to get that out there because like maybe someone else has had that thought. There's something about the song it gives it's I think maybe because it's really wholesome and sweet and like just reminds you of like such and it's really about like friendship and having like a really beautiful time together. Maybe that's it. But it gives that energy and like I need more of that energy in my life. >> I feel like our inspo kind of in the moment was a little bit like long live. >> Yes. It's just like you had to be there like the lights like just very like nostalgic and like exciting but I could see that too. >> There's just something about it. >> Who did you grow up listening to? >> Oo I grew up on like very what my version of classic country was like anything Y2K like I was obsessed obsessed obsessed with Toby Keith. He was like my icon. Love Miranda. Love Shaniah. Um, a lot of Craig Morgan. Like I was very influenced by my brother's taste in music just because like they normally got to pick what we would listen to. >> Yeah. Just because I didn't have a choice. But yeah. >> Yeah. >> But um it was just like if you go on and listen to anything Y2K, that was kind of like what we were always listening to. >> I love Miranda like that. It's like to this I listen to Kerosene probably like at least once a day. Like I'm it's like one Oh my god. I love automatic. Like there's like probably like four or five on shuffle that I listen to in Miranda Le like every single time. >> Automatic is so good. You know, I could be wrong, but if on the exact songs, but I'm pretty sure Automatic and Platinum she wrote I know in Nicole Gallion and I I think they wrote them in the same day, too. >> That would make sense. >> Which is like two iconic songs, two iconic queens. >> That happens. Well, cuz didn't What was it like Jolene like 9 to5 or something where something like something or like I will always love you and Jolene? Like something like that. Yeah, we need to get to the bottom of that. >> 20th of June, like it's happening. >> There you go. Okay, I want to talk about like being in this field in your mid20s cuz I think we've talked so much about how like you have to just kind of do things >> scared without without it being having any idea what you're doing and just like without the fear of not even without the fear, but being okay with feeling embarrassed or feeling cringe. >> Yeah. But I want to talk about like the other element of that where it's not like the most stable career path. Obviously, you've had a lot of success very young, but you're also stepping out in doing something that isn't like you could you're not working a traditional 9 toive job. >> Like how does that affect you like emotionally? Like does it ever stress you out? Like do you ever overthink it or are you like I'm good? >> Oh, like all the time. I There's like so many parts of what you just said that I could like go in on. I think that this is like what I've always wanted to do, what I always knew I was like going to go all in on. And so I'm very thankful to have had the success that I've had so far because I feel like it it's very easy to like give up on this dream because nobody is forcing you to live your dream, you know, like nobody is forcing you to get up and make music. Nobody's like begging you to to like release a song unless you like put something on TikTok or whatever, >> but like >> but they're not like at your bedside table telling you you have to get up and go do this. >> 100%. Like one of the things that's so hard is that like the industry does not need you as much as like you need it. And it's like if I just like move to Georgia tomorrow, like you kind of have those thoughts of you're like would really anybody miss me? Like would they care? You know, like would they be like, "Oh, just write one more song. Sing one more song." But it's like you are the one that has to wake yourself up every day and be like, "This is what I want. This is what I'm going after. Like this is my dream." And you have to like keep yourself in it. And so I think my husband has been like a huge part of that. I think my team has been like a huge part of that. Keeping people in your life that like motivate you and believe in you and inspire you. But it's definitely not easy and like nobody is going to lay it out for you. And I think that there's a lot of like misconceptions about I want to be a singer and then like what that actually means. And I mean like I'm living my dream. I'm not complaining. I'm like so excited to do what I do. But it's like you are like packing a bag and leaving and then you know maybe you're missing like some of your best friends weddings and then you're coming back and you have like just enough time to do laundry before you leave again and you're like do people even care? like, you know, it's just like a constant >> I can imagine it's be very like isolating too because everyone is here living their lives and like you barely like you're gone all the time and it's so I can see how that would be really hard to like even keep up friendships or make new friends and like have community when you're traveling and touring all the time. >> Yeah. I think you have to force yourself to be connected like I have to be like hey I need to go out of my way to like be a good friend and reach out because if not like I'm going to wake up one day and be like what was it all for? You know if you don't keep those people around you. Um, but I think you also make some of the best friendships and some of the best memories like while you're doing this and with people who also are like chasing a dream. And one thing that's really cool with me and like going back to the musical family thing is my brother tours with me full time. And so nice >> I have like a built-in family member that's like with me and I have had my band pretty much the same for like two years going on three. And so we've made so many memories together. And my parents love to come out to shows. My husband loves to come out to shows. Like thankfully I I mean I couldn't say like thankfully enough. I have an amazing like family base that just like they've never asked me to have a plan B. Like they've always just believed and like been inspired. And even I have um an aunt that's my husband's aunt, but she came up to me after a show one time and she was like, "Thank you for giving us a reason to like gather together." Cuz she was like, "You grow up and you have high school sports and everyone's seeing each other all the time, but she was like then everyone just kind of goes their separate ways, but she was like when you come through for shows or if you're close by, like we all jump in the car and we try to come see you." It just like we've seen each other so much more. And yeah, then you like have moments like that where you're like I'm like so thankful for those. Do you deal with comparison? Oh, of course. >> How do you deal with comparison? >> I mean, the thing is I do really try to block it out. I feel like I internalize a lot of it and I just like I'll I'll feel it and then I'll just like move on because I don't like to say things out loud that I don't want to come true. >> I'm the same way. >> Really? >> Yes. I No. I literally like >> I like don't want to give it power at all. >> Yes. I think that I don't want to make it a bigger deal than it is because I think if I say it out loud then it makes it real and it turns into a thing. Whereas like if I am like okay clock the thought I'm not going to like ruminate on it. Yeah. Literally like clock done. I'm not going to like ruminate on it. You know what I mean? But I I don't like I don't like saying stuff out loud for that reason. >> Yeah. I feel that. So I think there there are a few people in my life that I know I could tell anything to and I can go to them and be like h this is how I'm feeling. But then at the end of the day, like I think that it sounds a little cheesy, but I feel like gratitude always just like combats comparison for me because it's like I could sit here and be like this person has this or this person has done that and like >> I'm never going to get there or like I haven't made it there yet. But it's like oh I look back this year I got to release my debut album. I got to send my debut single to country radio. I got to play Red Rocks for the first time. Like I got to record and you know write some of my favorite music ever. Like you I got to spend amazing time with my family and like travel. It's just like >> totally >> you got to just take what's for you and believe that what's for you is not going to pass you by. You know >> sometimes >> no I love that sometimes whenever I'm comparing myself or just being like really hard on myself I will I will just like spiral. But I read this book called The Gap in the Gain and it like changed everything for me because I'm so focused on like where I want to be versus like what like where I have come from. >> So it's this entire I literally I read the book twice. I recorded a full solo episode and I was like obsessed with this book. >> I need to read this book. >> It's so good. But the idea is like you have your starting place where you're at and then like where you're going. And the gap is between like where you're at and where you're going. And the gain is from like where you started and where you are. >> And the whole idea is it's essentially gratitude, but it's said in different words and like it gives you different comparisons, but >> it they just go in and they give all these like actual examples as to how like it really benefits you even like scientifically to like go from living from the gain versus the gap. And I feel like >> for me like >> even that can apply to comparison because for me I'll be like oh well I have like you know when like you achieve something but then you think about someone who's achieved something more and so then it like you're like okay whatever this isn't a big deal literally. So it's been helpful for me like I try to like what you're saying I try to do that with the gain versus like living in the gap but I find myself living in the gap a lot but I do really try and it has helped me a lot. >> Yeah. I mean, like there's definitely moments where it's like uh like what what do I keep like what do I do? Do I do I keep going? Do I keep like giving to something? It's like you don't know how much it's going to give back. >> But it's like at the end of the day, you're doing what you love. I'm like, what else would I do? >> Yeah, that's so true. >> Yeah. There's no other option. >> Wait, so how did you meet your husband? >> Okay, so my hubby, he played baseball on the same baseball team as my brother. >> It all comes back to your brothers. >> I know. >> They've done a lot for you. Seriously. >> I know. Honestly, I like I do owe I owe them big time. They're great brothers. But um they played baseball together and my husband does not have any social media >> and so he had never like looked me up, whatever. Like I think there was like a little bit of a thing. I was going to sing the national anthem at the game and there was like a little bit of a thing where they're like, "Oh, Micah's sister. He he like she's cute. She's going to sing." And Micah was like, "Literally, don't think about it. Don't even look at her. Like, no. And so I think Cole, my husband, kind of took that as like a we'll see. And so he kind of started like flirting, making some, you know, >> so there's your brother helping you again. >> Yeah. Some like funny stuff. And Micah literally told him, he said, "You do not have a chance with my sister." And I literally went and sang and that day I met Cole. I was still dating my high school boyfriend. I drove to Athens and broke up with him because it was meant to be >> because I was like, >> "It's game over." >> Taking out a wide dress. >> Literally. Literally. >> Yeah. So, I mean, that was that. And >> so, how old were you when you guys met? >> 18. >> Wow. It's perfect. >> Yeah. And we just celebrated two years of being married. >> Yeah. >> So, he moved to Nashville with you. >> So, not We were a freshman in college, so I was like at Belmont trying to figure all this out. He was at uh Georgia Tech playing baseball and uh we were like we started dating later on, whatever. And I think he thought like, "Oh, that's like so cute. She's like, you know, trying to be a country music star and then she'll she'll graduate from school and she'll come home." And I was like, we kind of had this big conversation. Um where I was like, I'm like not coming home. Like I don't ever see myself coming home. So like if you want to be with me >> Mhm. you kind of got to like move to Nashville. And he never saw himself leaving. And so we have this joke now where he eventually moved here. We're married. He is obsessed with Nashville. And now he's like, "It used to be if I want to be with you, I had to be here. But now if you want to be with me, you got to stay here because you're never here." >> Yeah. The tables have turned. >> Yeah. But he's amazing. Honestly, he's so supportive. He like he's honestly he's in commercial real estate, but he like has this very creative side where he loves to be like involved and like come up with fun ideas and like loves to hear the songs and like I think it he's like really inspired by like being a part of this world and so he's so supportive of it and honestly like I I couldn't do it without him because I am gone a lot and it's a lot to ask of somebody and the fact that he's just like right there with me is so special. No, it's so beautiful. And a man without social media like >> that is amazing. That there's so >> there is nothing hotter than a guy without social media. >> Biggest green flag. >> Literally the biggest green. >> 100%. Like I've never had to think about like what maybe another girl thinks about like the the idea of going and looking at a guy's social media like after I meet him to see if I like him >> and like if he like was posting like thirst trap pics and stuff like I'm just like I would be like what's going on? >> It just leaves too much room for error. It really does. And like a man doesn't need to be taking photos of himself and posting it. Like that's for the girls. Like it really does. Like my boyfriend now doesn't have social media and I'm like well thank god. Like >> actually, thank God that just couldn't happen. Also, I think it's in all seriousness, I think it's really nice because >> there was never a point where I was like looking to see if he like watched my Instagram story. It it really does add so much like dumb stuff to the relationship that like it just doesn't matter. And you have so much to talk about >> because you're not like they don't see at least for me like they're not seeing what I'm doing all day every day. Like I like the separation of church and state if you will. >> Yeah. And we were actually long distance for like 5 years that we dated. And so I think it was like all just a preparation for you know we're not long distance anymore but like just all the travel and time spent apart. >> Totally. Yeah. You guys were like really cut out for it at that point. >> But it does make you like it you like reunite like you miss them so much and you like have so much to talk about and catch up on. So >> So it's like exciting all the time. >> Yeah. Okay. I was actually listening to your album earlier today. Love it. by the way. Oh, >> thank you. >> Um, and I just wanted to ask you like what do you think is the craziest red flag you've ever heard? >> O, well, so the funny part is at my shows if I'm able to pretty much every time I'll go to the merch table and like just hang out, say, "Hey, take pictures." I'll be like, "Tell me like your craziest ex story or like biggest red flag." And like honestly, the things that people share for free. >> Yeah. Actually, they need to be putting that behind a pay wall and charging the big bucks cuz it's so good. >> It's crazy. some of the things that people say and like they they're just like so shameless. Like one lady literally was there with like her ex's assistant and the assistant like told her like this guy's not who you think he is. Like he doesn't have as much money as you think he does. Like get out. >> Shout out to the assistant. >> I know they were there together and the guy is like kaput. >> He's gone. >> He's out. >> I think too because of social media like the amount of stories are so good. We were doing live shows for a while and we would do like this was back when it was like he's a 10 butt and the audience participation like I could do a full podcast episode just on cuz it's all like they're giving actual examples of something. I'm like this is like like the craziest thing ever. But it is so entertaining. >> It is so entertaining. >> Like you didn't have to go through like the crazy like dating phase cuz you were in love, you know? >> Yeah. >> That's really nice actually. I'm like jealous. >> It is nice. Honestly, I we we do laugh about like some of our early fights and like chaos cuz we were like so young and immature, >> but it has been fun to like get to like grow up together. >> Yeah, that's really sweet. >> Yeah. >> If you could only listen to one album for the rest of your life that you have like nothing to do with work-wise that you haven't touched, what would you choose? >> The rest of my life. >> I know, tough. >> You could also just choose an artist who can make it easier. You know who I'm just like so obsessed with? >> Who? >> Siza. >> I love Siza. >> I'm so obsessed with Siza. And honestly, like her last album had so many songs on it. Like I could actually forever. >> Yeah, you it's like has to be like a triple album at that point. >> But I love obviously like Well, I I can only say one. It would it would it would neglect the statement if I talked about other artists I love, >> but I do think that is my answer. >> Says it's amazing. I like want to meet her one day. >> I don't body sex to her like all the time. >> I just want to know what she's like. >> She's really nice. >> Like, you know, I feel like people in country music, they're so like forward with their personalities and like their life and everything. And maybe I'm just like not in the know, but there's so many like pop artists and I'm like, but like who are you? Like I love your music, but like >> what do you do in your >> I need like the tea. I think because pop artists a lot like it's more of a production, >> you know? So, not a facade in a bad way, but it's like a >> it's more of a brand thing. Yes. So, like they have like this specific which is actually like kind of nice for them cuz they can have like more privacy in that way. >> Well, you know, speaking of that, I've been trying to figure out like do you have any tea on like >> perfect timing >> on if Dolly Parton like what she actually looks like? >> Okay. Do you like believe the like tattoos thing? >> People say she's covered in tats and they say that she has red hair. Don't they? >> Here's the thing. I just want to believe it. Period. Well, I like to has she cracked the code on where like her look is like a legit costume and maybe we think we've never seen her, but maybe we've seen her a million times out in public, but we just don't know that it's her because she looks like this. >> I really do think it's possible. For those who are listening who are not familiar with this whole idea, Dolly Parton allegedly is covered in like a full like full body tattoos, has red hair, and she the Dolly Part. >> Yeah. It's a costume. >> Yeah. So I think >> it has never been seen like without her makeup and her hair. >> Yeah. >> Couldn't be me, but I love that for her. >> No, I really think I think it could be true. I want to know so bad. >> I want to know so bad. >> Did you see um the Dolly Parton musical when it was at Belmont actually premier? >> So devastated. How was it? >> Let me tell you, I'm not even a Broadway girl. Like I'm not a theater girl. I'll be the first to admit it. I don't like know anything. I I like it. I respect it, but I don't like know, you know, but and I'm like a huge Dolly Parton fan though. Okay, so I I'm sitting there. It's amazing. I have my Dolly Parton like Chardonnay wine with me. I have my friend there. Opening song. Immediate chills. Crying. It was beautiful. Chills, tears. Stunning. Do >> you remember what it was? >> Um, it's like actually a song just for the >> the musical. >> Musical. But it was just so good and it was so amazing and like seriously really grateful cuz I would have gone to New York to like see it. So now I'm glad I don't have to like coordinate that and I've seen it already. >> Great point. >> Um but it was amazing. It was so good. Like actually insane. >> I know. I wish I would have seen it. So it's Is it playing in New York now? You think? >> I think it I don't actually know. I can't remember if it's this year or next year. >> I have to go see it. >> They were doing like preview I've talked about this on the podcast. They're doing like preview shows at Belmont in August or something. >> I know. I remember seeing people go to that. Yeah, >> it was so insane. >> I'll take any excuse for your trip to New York though. >> Yeah. >> Catch me on a flight. >> Well, you have to go cuz it was actually incredible. >> I know. I need to see it. >> Like also Dolly Parton is such a good person to do a deep dive on because there's so much to her. >> There's so many years there. >> So many years. >> I just went to Dollywood for the first time. >> I didn't get to actually like go explore. I played a show there and it was like on a Tuesday and I guess that's like when they're closed and so I was like, "Oh, perfect." But I did stay in the hotel there and I was like so impressed with just like how beautiful and like well-kept everything was. And it I think they told me it's like the number one theme park like in the country, which I mean that would be that would that would beat like any Six Flags like Disney World. Like I'm like that's crazy. >> That makes sense to me though. My best friend is from California and she had no clue who Dolly Parton was. >> How would you not know? >> She literally thought she was Hannah Montana's godmother, you know. >> Okay. >> Like we all I think thought that at some point. >> But um when she came with me to the show and I was like, "Yeah." So remember how I told you about like Dolly Parton? She's like she's this big. >> Yeah, she is. >> Oh my gosh. I got to go to like when it was like ACM week in Dallas like two years ago and they had like the Dolly world basically. They had all of her brands like a popup there and the day before I get an email that was inviting me to like some press conference. So it was like me and like only it was only like 30 or 40 other people in the room and Dolly Parton and I was like this is actually the best day of my life. Like I remember exactly what I was wearing. >> Fun fact I am in one of her music videos. I'm in the BGVs like a river. Honestly I have no idea. some like connection through someone and someone and I got a call and they're like, "Do you want to go be in this music video?" So, I did get to meet her and I got to sway behind. >> Wait, okay, tell me everything. So, you met her. What happened? Like, what did she say? How was she acting? Tell me. >> I mean, she was perfect. She was everything that you expect her to be. She was in those heels that I don't know how she walks in. Fully done up, looking like a beautiful, beautiful angel and just like it was probably like, "Hey, like, thanks so much for having me." And she's like, "Oh, girl, like of course we're so happy to have you." Like it she was just perfect. She's everything you think she is. >> Do you have a photo with her >> mentally? >> We do. We do. There's something. I need to pull it up. >> Yeah, I need that. See, I bring up Dolly Parton to like any of my like country star friends on the podcast. She's like hoping that they're going to have a Dolly Parton story for me. And like, thank you because you're literally the first one who has. >> Yeah. Peace like a river, baby. >> That's what I needed last week. I' I've been looking for an MLM to have on the podcast cuz I like needed, you know, MLMs. >> No. >> Oh my god. I'm really into MLMs. So MLM, they're just, you know, like the pyramid schemes. Oh, >> that stuff. Okay. And I've always wanted to meet one on the podcast up close and personal who could tell me the ins and outs. They're not scammers. And I do want to say this is my new friend. I do this is my new friend J. Hayes who was on the podcast, but she was an MLM up until like 2022 and she did some amazing things for people and it really impacted their lives in positive ways before she even got into comedy. But I was so grateful to have that. I needed that. I still need something from the mob, but now I have a real life Dolly Parton encounter. >> Dolly Parton. >> I have like a bucket list on this podcast and you're just like, check something off. >> Wow. Do you have anything else? Like >> I'm down to the mob. So like once I have someone from the mob on, which that's going to be tricky to do. >> We can talk off air. I have a connection for you. >> Oh my god, you're making all my dreams come true. Well, >> I have a connection for you, but I I can't like say it because I don't want to I don't want to be involved. >> That's so real. Like I I have something that like I probably can't share public. I I actually can't cuz the person's mom, but like I I know that >> guys, I swear the mob episode exists. It just can never be >> public. But here's my thing. If anyone's listening and they have a mom connect like >> they we can hide their face. No video for them. >> Vau coder. >> Yes, exactly. They can wear like a mask even if they need to. I don't even need to see what they look like. Preferably I wouldn't. Okay. Anyway, um thank you so much for coming on the show today. Can you share like where they can find you on tour, the new album, everything? >> Yes. So, um you can find me at Matt Karp Music on all social media, mackenzieusic.com for tour dates. I am always out and about. So find out when I'm near you. And um I just released an album, Hey Country Queen. So go give it a listen. And there is new music coming soon. So keep your eyes peeled, people. >> Amazing. Thank you. Thank you.