Jordan Love, Caleb Williams rivalry reignited | 1st & North

Hello, everyone. Welcome to First and North. I'm Devin Kainey. Joining me this week on First and North, voice of the Detroit Lions, Dan Miller from Fox, Milwaukee, Lily Zhao, and from Fox, Minneapolis, Ahmaud Hicks. Guys, welcome in. We are officially in the back end of the NFL off season. Of course, lots of exciting stuff happening around the overall Sports World Home Run Derby last night. First, I want to get anyone's hot takes on that. If you enjoyed the new format, I thought it was a good time, but I've heard some critiques of it. Ahmaud, let's go to you first. Look, I was about to tee off because Jordan Walker won. He's a St. Louis guy, plays for the Cardinals. I'm from St. Louis, so I'm just a little biased on everything last night. So I didn't get to watch it because I was at the Lynx game, but when I was able to tune in and see what happened, I was thrilled. I went back, watched it on YouTube, and I'm like, go Jordan Walker, love what he's able to do, especially because people called him a bust three years ago. Yeah, you love to see it. Although, you know, I am from Philadelphia, so didn't love that Kyle Schwarber got that close and then lost out. But tonight is the MLB All-Star game. Until then, guys, I think we have some football to discuss. Shall we? Let's do it. All right, so we're two weeks out from training camp, eight Sundays until a full fleet of NFL games gets underway week one. So you know what that means, guys. It is officially list season still. Another quarterback list came out. This one is from ESPN with rankings from league executives, coaches, and scouts. So let's take a look at this list. Josh Allen coming in the top spot. Patrick Rahomes, number two. Matthew Stafford rounding out the top three. Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, Justin Herbert, Drake May. Jared Goff stays put at number nine for the second year in a row, despite taking a career-high 38 sacks. And Caleb Williams beats out guys like Sam Darnold, Jordan Love, and Jalen Hurts to make the top 10. Now, before we get into the NFC North, do you agree with Josh Allen taking the top spot over Patrick Rahomes? Dan, I'll start with you. You know, it's tough because you want to assign winning to quarterbacks, but that's difficult as well because you are so many times a victim of what goes on around you. Look, Rahomes obviously had the injury. There's some questions about him going forward, so I don't have a problem with that. Allen's really, really gifted, but he kind of felt like last year might be his time in the AFC and there might be an opportunity for him to get it done and it didn't happen. When will it happen, I think, is the question for people because the resume for him is all there, except for the big one, which is winning the Super Bowl. So, ultimately, he's going to have to answer that question. It was something that followed Matthew Stafford until he finally won a Super Bowl and he's having this incredible renaissance now in his late 30s. And, you know, as far as golf's concerned, if people want to put him ninth, that's fine. I think we feel good about what he does with this offense in Detroit. And I think, again, sometimes you're a victim of what goes on around you. That offensive line struggled last year. The defense wasn't there when they needed it at times last year. Maybe if those two things had been different, he'd be a little higher on this list. So, there's different things you can look at, Justin Herbert. Has he really earned that much respect when the chips have been down? I don't know if the answer to that's yes. Yeah, there are a lot of almost head-scratchers when it comes to, you know, accomplishments and lists. But, Lily, I mean, do you agree with the fact that both Caleb Williams and Jared Goff, as well as the other eight guys who made this top 10, came in above Jordan Love, who was an honorable mention? Yeah, I know at the end of the day, Jordan Love's not going to really care about where he lands on a list, especially in the off-season. But, you know, I'm kind of curious about the Herbert pick. Caleb Williams being number 10 is interesting. Listen, I know he had phenomenal moments last year. And, yes, he beat the Packers twice and come from behind fashion. He was spectacular in the insane, crazy moments. But those kind of routine passes, those consistent moments weren't really there for Caleb. So I'm excited to see if he can do that this year for Chicago. But, you know, interesting that he's in the top 10. I'd like to see Jordan Love there at the end of the year. But I know he doesn't really care. And just to echo Dan's thoughts as well, I think Jordan Love kind of was a product of the entire team as well. They were young. The offensive line was injured most of the year. So guys were kind of plugging in kind of every which way. And then, you know, you had a defense that couldn't get it done at the tail end of the season due to injuries, especially up front without Micah Parson. So they really were snake-bitten in the injury department. And, you know, Jordan Love can't play defense as well. I mean, they had their shots, of course, but hopefully a healthier Packers team should do Jordan Love much wonders this year, guys. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I mean, I think the NFC North, as a division, is, A, as an outsider coming in. I covered, you know, Philadelphia and the NFC East previously. It is extremely daunting. Like, this division is insane when you look at the talent. And it feels like each team in this division just gets better and better each year, both coaching-wise and as far as players go. But I want to talk about Caleb Williams. He went from being unranked to 10th after his season of late-game heroics. He threw 11 touchdowns as at least 20 yards downfield. He reduced his stack total and has proven his ability to keep plays alive. Now, Lily, you just mentioned you weren't totally sure about Caleb Williams coming in at number 10. When you really stack up Caleb and Jordan Love together, and I know that they had some of the most electric quarterback matchups several times last season, do you think that we are in for another nail-biter Packers-Bears-Jordan Love-Caleb Williams rivalry ahead in 2026? Absolutely. I think, you know, the Packers, their goal a year ago was to win more games in the division. They did that last year because they were abysmal two years ago in the NFC North. And then you look at just the Packers and Bears. It's a historic rivalry. It's one that a lot of, you know, fans watch, and rightfully so. And unfortunately the Packers kind of got a little bit too cocky in their last two matchups against the Bears, and they built a lead and they couldn't hang on, and they lost in agonizing fashion. I know one game Jordan Love didn't finish it due to injury. And so I think it's going to be a really fun battle this year. I'm just happy that they're not playing at the tail end of the season twice like they did last year. So they're going to be battling a little bit earlier in the year. That's going to be a lot more exciting to watch. But I do think that Jordan Love, Caleb Williams, that rivalry this year will be even more intense if that's something we can say. Now, Ahmad, we got to bring you in here. Now, the Vikings don't have a quarterback on this list or as an honorable mention because the Vikings don't have a definitive QB1. So hypothetically, if Kyler Murray is QB1, what's your confidence level in him at the helm this year? You would like to think so, especially with his versatility, his ability to extend plays, create outside the pocket, and throw on the run. And he's never had a wide receiver court like Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, T.J. Hawkinson, and then you throw in a Jawan Jennings. So I think that although it's rightfully deserved not to be in the top 10 list right now because he hasn't done anything recently with the Arizona Cardinals. He's in a new offense now. He has a new system. So how fast will he get up to speed? We've already seen him. I wouldn't say complain, but make note that he's not getting all the reps and OTAs and minicamps like he has throughout his career. And that's challenging trying to learn a new playbook. And you still have J.J. McCarthy here who everyone, including myself, has written off as QB1. So I'm sure he has a big chip on his shoulder. So whoever plays quarterback for the Vikings this season, hopefully they will play 10 times better than what we got last year. But I think if they can just be an above average quarterback, you're talking about them being maybe top 15 in the league. I'm not gonna say top 10, but maybe top 15. Well, the good news is, whoever the quarterback is for the Vikings, they have many reliable options to throw the ball to. You got Justin Jefferson, Jawan Jennings, lots of J names also, lots of tongue twisters there. But they say Vegas knows. We talked to John Murray from Westgate Superbook out in Vegas. He said heavy money being on the Bears and Caleb Williams to do big things in 2026. Let's take a listen. This is not gonna surprise you much. The Bears have the most tickets here at the Westgate Superbook to win the division. That I don't think is surprising. This may surprise you and your listeners. Guess which team has the most tickets here to win the NFC? The Bears. And guess which team has the most tickets here to win the Super Bowl? The Chicago Bears. And guess which player has the most tickets to win the NFL MVP here at the Westgate Superbook? Do you wanna guess? I'll say it for you. Caleb Williams. All right, I wanna get immediate reactions. Dan, I'm gonna go back to you for the first crack at this one. What's your, are you shocked to hear that? No, I'm not shocked because I'm guessing the odds on the Bears were somewhat enticing. Not that they're a long shot, but they're probably pretty decent to win some money on them. And look, I think the Bears were a really intriguing team that could go one of two ways. You put the stat up there, seven comeback wins last year, seven final two-minute wins, whatever that ultimate stat was. And I've said this before, I think that can go one of two ways. I think you can say, hey, that lock's gonna run out. You can't survive like that long-term. And some of that's gonna return to the mean this year and you're gonna lose some of those games. Or you can say, hey, this Bears team in the second year under Ben Johnson, another year down the line for Caleb Williams, is going to just be better. And those one-score games will now be two-score games in the fourth quarter. And they just reel off some kind of magical season. So it doesn't surprise me that people are bullish on the Bears. I think that's a combination of what they did last year and probably also that the odds indicate that you might be able to make some money on that because people don't want to bet money on, let's say, a prohibitive favorite because that's not gonna get you a good return. The Bears are probably an enticing number. I don't know exactly what it is. So that, in some ways, does make sense to me. All right, Lily, let's go to you. What's your take? I kind of want to take that clip, and I'm hoping I'm not wrong at the end of the year, where, what's that account, Old Exposed Takes or something like that? Old Takes, Exposed Freezing Cold Takes, something like that. Yes, and I know it's a fun time in Chicago, a lot of rabid Chicago Bears fans. And I know, like Dan said, it's a product of what have you done for me lately? And this is the Chicago Bears team last year who were extremely electric, found every single way to win. They were never out until the clock's at zero. So I believe that's adding to the hype this year. Again, it's a very good unit defensively, Caleb Williams with the offense. So I understand the hype. I understand why people believe they are gonna be favorites. And I think they're gonna be viewed that way to start the season so that, you know, behooves teams like the Packers to say, we're not gonna take this Bears team for granted, even though we've had their number the last couple of years, last year excluded, that we're gonna take them seriously. This is a really dangerous team. But I do believe at the end of the day, some of that luck will run out. But the question will be, if that luck runs out, can Caleb be more consistent, just again with those, quote unquote, easier throws for himself, and help out his guys a little bit more? And can the defense kind of pick up the slack at the end of the year as well? So I'm intrigued to see what they do. I understand why they're favorites, Caleb Williams included, but I'm hoping I can kind of mark that with that account at the end of the year. All right, Ahmad, you get the last take here. Do you agree? Do you think it's gonna be a freezing cold take come the end of the year? No, I don't think so. Devin, it pains me to actually say this, but I kind of agree with them. Look, this can go either one or two ways for the Chicago Bears and Caleb Williams. They had a lot of close wins last year, late fourth quarter comebacks, overtime, all that good stuff. They can either lose that momentum they had towards the end of last season, and all those close games we saw them win, they could end up losing, but like Dan said, second year in Ben Johnson's offense, second year for Caleb Williams in this offense, a chance for him to get more comfortable. You upgrade the wide receiver position from DJ Moore going to Luther Burton III. I think there's more explosiveness there, more yards after the catch. So I think that, unfortunately, Caleb Williams and the Bears will take another step this year. I think their offense will only be better this season, and I think that it's gonna be a pain for the rest of the teams in the NFC North. And as a Missouri native, a St. Louis guy, that pains me to say that the Chicago Bears should be really good this year, unfortunately. Well, look, like I said, the NFC North as a division is going to be really good. They always are extremely competitive. So I think truly anything can happen. We should have some many exciting matchups, I should say. All right, we're gonna hit our first break. Stick around, we'll be right back. Caleb gets it away. He's got to do it, Jake! Touchdown! You cannot make this up, I swear! What an electrifying season for the Chicago Bears and the city of Chicago. Go Bears, go Bears, go Bears! I'm Cathy Carlson. It's the off-season. We're keeping the excitement going all year long. They are positioned to make some moves. From the combine. The tape tells the story. To the draft. Welcome to Chicago. And camp. And everything to get you pumped for another wild ride. The off-season. Friday night at six on Fox Local. Welcome back to First and North. I'm Devin Kaney at our Fox 32 studios in Chicago, joined by Dan Miller in Detroit, Lily Zhao in Milwaukee, and Ahmaud Hicks in Minneapolis. Now guys, we were just talking about one list because it is officially the list season of the off-season, if that exists. But we have another list to discuss, and that is the top 100 NFL players voted on by active NFL players. So this one means a lot. So we are through 167 just released today. Three packers have made the list so far. Safety, Xavier McKinney at number 70. He joins Jordan Love, who's 72, and Josh Jacobs at 74. Now, before I get everyone's thoughts on this, let's hear from the players themselves on these three guys. When you talk about the hard running running backs I've always been a fan of his game. He has that burst. He's quick through the line. He's explosive. But then like I said, if he can lower that shoulder and run you over, he has a little bit of everything to his game. A guy like him, you know, he's running extremely hard. Every single play, defense wears down. They're not going to want to keep tackling. He's so smart, intelligent, and just matches his game speed. He is the ball hawk of the Packers defense. He does a great job of understanding that play in the mind games, that chess match that you play as a quarterback versus safety. His vision and his smarts. I mean, he's, you know, he's got that football IQ. He's firm. I mean, you go through the tape, he has so many like marvelous throws. We're all in the team meeting and we're watching like the big plays and I'm like, yo, he's throwing that. He just got so much confidence back there and he needs to move around. He's, you know, obviously got the skill set to do that. He's just fearless. Like he believes he can make every throw. Kind of upset because he threw a touchdown to me. So I was pretty upset about that. Now, when it comes to Jordan Love coming in at 72, this just continues his regression through this top 100 list. Love has moved down in each of his three seasons he's been ranked starting at 34th overall to 68 and now 72. So Lily, I want to go to you first. Do you think this is a fair ranking for Jordan Love? Yeah, I just think Jordan Love will just continue until he wins the Super Bowl, continue to be an underrated player. I don't know really what the national outlook is as to why they think he is, you know, ranked that number when he should be higher in my opinion. Listen, I know at the end of the day, wins, you know, you're the head of that as a quarterback. Cumber behind wins, especially in the post season. You're the head of that, getting deep in the post season, making a Super Bowl run. You're the head of that. And he hasn't really done that yet. Last year, they had a really good chance and they couldn't capitalize in Chicago. So I know a lot rides on his shoulders, especially after his predecessor, Aaron Rodgers. But I do think Jordan Love is a very underrated quarterback. You look at his stats last year and they were pretty good outside of, you know, leading his team deeper into the post season. But I think this year, again, with a more continuous offensive line, a healthier offensive line, more weapons at his disposal as well, healthier Tucker Craft, I think he will rocket up the scoreboards and hopefully get a higher ranking. But listen, at the end of the day, the players on the Packers view him as number one on their team and that's what matters. Yeah, bringing up Tucker Craft is really important because when you look at the Packers offensive numbers from pre-Tucker Craft injury to post, it really is mind-boggling how important he is. So hopefully, you know, he can bounce back and that offense can get back on track. Dan, I wanna go around the horn on this one. What's your take on this? Listen, I think what Lily said is correct. I think there's so much that is wrapped up in winning. If he pulls out that game against Chicago in the playoffs, people look at him differently. And again, that's something on the quarterback and that's something on the cast around him. So when you talk about that position, to me, it is the most important position in all of sports. And it is one that winning and losing is tied to you specifically more so than any other position in all of sports. Maybe a starting pitcher in baseball, but that's changed over the years as well too. So these guys sign up for that. It's why they get the X hundred million dollar contracts because they're expected to go out there and perform. And I still think the story is being written for a guy like Jordan Love. And the story is being written for Caleb Williams. It's being written for Jared Goff. And Kyler Murray hopes that he has a new story that's gonna be written about him. But they're all searching for that ultimate goal that will rocket them up that list. Because even if you have a rough game and a Super Bowl and your team wins, you have a Super Bowl ring and a Lombardi trophy in your town. And that's gonna certainly boost, I think, the way people view you. Well, Maude, I mean, I know you said you're buying Caleb Williams and Bears stock. Are you gonna buy or sell Jordan Love stock this season? Yeah, I think the only thing that plagues Jordan Love is his consistency. I mean, some weeks he's phenomenal. Like Michael Parson says in that video, you watch some of his throws and you're like, wow, this is a generational type talent. And then you watch some other games and you're like, did he piece everything together yet? So I think that's the one thing that's lacking from his game is consistency. And I think he's gonna eventually piece it all together. And when he does, he's going to be a very dangerous quarterback. I just hope that he has six bad games a year and they take place against the NFC North teams, particularly against the Minnesota Vikings. Oh, come on. That's fair, that's fair. Another surprising quarterback ranking from this list, Lamar Jackson, surprisingly high. He came in at 69th and he's a two-time MVP. He fell 67 spots from the number two spot last year. Now keep in mind, this is voted on by NFL players. So Dan, I want to go back to you. I want to get your take on this. Why the decline, especially in his peers' eyes? Well, if you go back to that list that you showed us earlier, I believe he was fifth overall among quarterbacks. And that kind of got me a little bit too, because I think, I feel like the jury was in on Lamar Jackson and then the jury went back out to deliberate a little bit more. I just don't think people know really where they are right now on Lamar Jackson. And again, some of that is what's going on around him and some of that is on him. But in the biggest of moments, you have to wonder, just like we talked about with Justin Herbert, in the biggest of moments, that's where quarterbacks at least have to be at their best or delivering for their team and finding a way to win those games. That's what ultimately will define them. And that hasn't really happened for Lamar Jackson. And that's why he has fallen. And I do think that's why there's been more conversation recently about, would he be in Baltimore long-term or would he not be in Baltimore long-term? So again, guys, it just goes back to something we keep coming back to in this show. It's about winning and winning big games. That's what Mahomes has done for Kansas City and why he's at the top of that list. That's what Matthew Stafford did ultimately in winning a Super Bowl and now winning a couple of playoff games in each of the past couple of years for the Rams. That's what you have to do to deliver and ultimately be looked at consistently. And I just think for some of these guys that we're talking about, there's still questions out there. And as those questions linger, you're going to see fluctuation in the way that people view them. Yeah, well, someone that you haven't really seen fluctuation in is Josh Allen, who, you know, you talk about big games and yeah, he's won some big post-season games, but not the games that he's needed to. Yet he is, at least in that other list by ESPN, he's the number one quarterback. But Ahmad, I saw you shaking your head while I was reading that, that Lamar Jackson had fallen to 69. So what are your thoughts on this? Two things. When it comes to lists, look, I'm a big thing. People on this show, they know I hate off-season lists, but my thing is the players are voting on these lists, but how many times are they actually watching a full 60-minute football game that's not their own? Like, you know what I'm saying? Outside of the team that they're playing. So when they're voting on these other players and you say Lamar Jackson took this huge step back, out of the 17 games of his, how many did you actually watch? And how can you say he took a step back? I mean, I think in MVP conversations, he's been up there the last two to three years. You go back, what, three seasons ago? Zay Flowers fumbles at the goal line versus the Kansas City Chiefs. They have a chance to win that game. Mark Andrews drops a two-point conversion, I think, against the Buffalo Bills for a chance for them to have a chance to go on. Then Derrick Henry fumbling last year. So I just think that it's a total team game, but ultimately, like Dan said, you have to win when it matters. But I also think lists are a little misguided because Josh Allen has a history for losing when it matters, yet he's at the top of the list. So I think it's a little unfair criticism for Lamar Jackson to drop, but ultimately you have to win. And I think if you're not winning the big game, that leaves the door open for a ton of criticism. Yeah, I mean, and look, it's list season, like we've said, okay? We have training camp in two weeks. We are, you know, finding things to discuss until then. So sometimes you just gotta give the list the attention that they're begging for. All right, we need to take our final time out. We'll be back to wrap up First and North coming up next. Join Cassie Carlson. If you get that, is that the determining factor? It's the final word for Chicago sports fans. What is the personality of a guy that you wanna bring into the Bears? Chicago sports tonight. New episodes weeknights at six. Stream anytime on Fox Local. Welcome back to First and North. Teams report in two weeks. So guys, this is the time when us NFL reporters, us sports anchors, we try to squeeze in our last minute, you know, summer vacations, any time off. I just moved to Chicago, so I'll be spending the next two weeks just unpacking boxes that seem to have taken over my life. Lily, I'll go to you first. Do you have any last minute plans before the madness begins? Good question. Outside of watching the World Cup, I think I'm gonna make a little quick trip down to New Orleans. It'll be fun to get some nice food in, nice sights in, and then get back to work. So guys, I'm ready for a lot of good eating. I love that. I love New Orleans. Dan, what about you? Hey, you know what? Just find something relaxing, whether it's a palm tree and a drink or whatever it takes, but we all know once that training camp starts, we're locked in and ready to go. So just enjoy the downtime before the rush begins. I second that. For sure. Yes, thank you, Ahmad. All right, that does it. Great show as always for Dan, Lily, and Ahmad. I'm Devyn Keeney. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next week on First Innings.