Knicks Season Preview w/ CP "The Fanchise" & Jonathan Macri | NY Got Game

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another edition of New York Got Game. You know what time of year it is, because if you're watching this, you see the guys next to me. It is time for our season preview. We've been doing this, I think, fourth year? Fourth year in a row we've done this. Fourth season preview? The time has flown. It's fine. The summer has flown. Yeah. Who knows? You know the guys next to me, right here to my right. My guy, CP the Franchise, founder of Knicks Fan TV, and the founder and dean of Knicks Film School, my guy, Jonathan Mackey. Fellas, what's up? The last time I saw both of you in person was the parade. Did that happen? Yeah. You didn't dream that? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Three, three. Yeah, we talked the night after, the day after the next one of the championship, and I saw you guys at the parade. How was your summers? That's what I'll ask first. Fantastic. Long and short. Long and short. Yeah. Long and short. It was just a dream. Everything was a dream, and it's become more of a reality now, but just going through that whole experience, and then meeting up in Las Vegas with J-Mac, as we usually do, and then And before you knew it, we're like, training camp, media day. But we're right back to it. So it was still a dream come true. I've said it to a few people, like, I could have used another month, probably, if I'm being honest. But I'll say this. I kept waiting initially for it to, like, fully sink in and to feel this, like, sensation of being overjoyed. And instead of that, it more hit me towards the end of the summer, like this like feeling of like relaxation and almost liberation and especially entering this season where i'm like but it really does feel like the weight has been lifted so i i think that's that's i didn't know that that was what it was going to be but that's definitely what i'm feeling yeah it's been interesting for me this summer too just hearing what you guys said and then just all the work we do around the Knicks and just kind of being like this is a different year because we do not have to and we'll get this where we're going to start we might as well start here yeah because last year when we sat here and the last couple of years we sat here we were talking about well how can this team win a championship whether or not they can win a championship now that they've done that they start this season as the defending champions has that changed your expectations of this team and is anything short of another i'll say appearance in the finals a disappointment for either within the context of that particular this particular season sure but in the grand scheme of things. Look, I've had Knicks fans tell me they don't have to win another game for years and I'll be good, right? Now for me, I'm always going to want to see them rise to the top and have those bragging rights, be the kings of the league. And look, they're running back 90% of the team, 95% of the team with Jalen Brunson at the helm. And so yeah, I want to see them get back and defend the crown. It's interesting because if you compare them to, let's just say the last three NBA champions so you got the Nuggets the Celtics and most recently the Thunder before the Knicks I would argue that each of those fan bases if you told them you guys are only going to win one championship all of them would have said that's probably a little bit of a disappointment given who either who's on the roster or how well set up we are and obviously those teams could still win again so you know it's we're not done yet I don't know that before this championship If you had asked Knicks fans, like, you're only going to get one. Is that cool? We would have all jumped out the window for one. That said, it doesn't mean that they could, like, for instance, go out in the second round this upcoming year and then, like, never make it past the first round again, and it's going to be totally fine. I think the core is good enough and young enough that we should all feel like at some point in the next couple of years they should make it back to a second final. Whether that's this year or another year, we'll see. That would be nice. Knicks fans, I know, Knicks fans, they want back-to-back. Everybody would love to see him go back-to-back, but that is hard. We've talked about this on the show before. That is very hard. Let's start with offense, J-Mac. I'm going to ask you this because we saw the offense become much more efficient in the postseason, particularly after Game 3 against the Atlanta Hawks. What changed that made the Knicks offense so effective, and how much of that do you think is sustainable this season? I think, look, how they used Cat and how they changed his usage got the most attention, but I actually want to give out a shout-out to Benji Ritholtz over at Knicks Film School, which wrote a great piece about how really, like, yes, that was a factor in it, but Cat as the hub on offense, they didn't use it that much after the first round. It was really more of a Hawks thing, and then they used it intermittently against Philly and even less so, I would say, against Cleveland and San Antonio. It was really just the shot-making, and I know that's kind of a simplistic answer, but I went and looked it up on my way in. If you look at every NBA champion, and just their effective field goal percentage in the playoffs that they won the championship. There's only one team that ever had one higher than the Knicks had last year, and that was the first KD and Steph Warriors team, and it was by a tenth of a percentage point. So think about it. This team last year was neck and neck with what a lot of people feel like was the greatest assemblage of offensive talent ever to step foot on the basketball court. They lost one game in the postseason, that Warriors team. So I think you've got guys like OG, Cat, and Macau all had spectacular runs of shot making is that sustainable for 82 games probably not but it doesn't mean that they can't introduce some of the concepts from the last playoffs and more importantly that synergy that i think you've seen interspersed in the preseason not consistently i think we could expect to see more of that and yeah i see no reason why they shouldn't be a top three to four offense again yeah i'm very intrigued to see how coach brown diversifies the offense even more this season you can see it already in the preseason he's tinkering with some things. We've seen that of that nature, but how he diversifies it more is going to be very interesting. CP, for you. I would just say I agree with him wholeheartedly. I think the Hawks series put the magnifying glass on Cat, you know, running the offense through him, but I thought what it did was really empower everybody. And as Macri said, it was elite shot making which you needed in the playoffs. OG, his historic true shooting numbers. Mikal Bridges, once he got past the goose egg, he was hot. Landry Shamet, hot, you know, In the ECF, he had his moments in various series. Game three of the Philly series. I mean, dynamic scoring against, you know, stingier defense. I wouldn't call Philly's defense elite or anything, but stingier, right? But it just opened it up. And so it just showed you that they have the ability to do so. And the expectation is another year in this offense, another year with their chemistry. And as Mike Brown said to you guys in the media after the preseason game, he's keeping things a little bit more vanilla. I think it's going to open up again. Purposefully, he is definitely doing that. Just one last thing on that, because I think it's an important point. There have been times over the last two years under Tibbs and then even under Mike Brown last year where the offense, given the talent, felt like pulling teeth, like more than it should have, certainly. I don't think, I would hope, we're past that, that at the very least these guys have found the synergy, a cohesion, whatever word you want to use, where there's going to be like a baseline and it's about how high above that baseline that they could reach. So, that's interesting, too, because going into last year, and I think even the previous year, we could talk about it, we felt like the offense so much was like, how is Jalen Brunson going to carry this team, right? And then we saw that because I love the word used, empowered. Other guys were empowered. But we saw Jalen Brunson's MVP. He cemented his place in Knicks history. We know he can go even higher. I think the question is, would a guy like that who's got an NBA Finals MVP, who had that legendary Game 5 with the injury to his hand, what's left for Brunson to improve in this game do you think he can improve and do you think he can have an MVP caliber season here for the Knicks and lead them to another title it's so hard to say what he needs to improve on because he's been so dynamic he's been so good right like even his defense was was good in the playoffs or good enough to help them win the championship i i did not see too many possessions where it was just like wow they're really exposing him you know The guys are shooting over him. I thought he held his own, and it was admirable. And then offensively, he turned it up when he needed to. So it's kind of hard to say which aspect of his game he needs to work on. As far as the MVP, I think he's going to have a hard time, similar to how Tatum had when the Celtics were at full strength in that, just as we talked about, there's so much diversity in the offense that on any given night, it could be OG's night, it could be Cat's night, it could be a Josh Hart triple-double, it could be McBridge's. So you're not necessarily going to need Jalen Brunson every night to be that 25-9 type of guy to be up there in the MVP race. You know, you look around the league, Shai's going to be Shai. The Joker's going to do his part. Luka's going to have to do his part to lift the Mavs. So I think those guys, just from a numbers standpoint, are probably going to be higher than Jalen. But nevertheless, he is in the MVP race. You forgot the frontrunner currently for MVP, I think, is Wemby. Wemby. Yeah, you can't leave him out of that. I think the best compliment you pay to Jalen is he's reached, and I'm not putting him in the same breath as these players, but just go with me for a second. He's reached that level of like the MJs and the Kobes where it's no longer about what they're capable of doing. It's about figuring out when to call your own number versus when to get the teammates involved. That's the only thing left that he could improve on, and I think he even improved on that over the course of the playoffs. The course of the postseason, yeah. I think he definitely did. J-Mac, let me ask you about Kat, too, because we know there's a lot going on with Kat right now. Oh, is there? There might be a little something going on with contracts. We'll get to that a little bit later. But we saw him play so much better, guys, through that postseason. Now, I remember doing these watch parties and fans were saying, oh, well, his shot attempts are down or his points per game are down. And I was like, I don't care about this. He's getting these touches. He's efficient with the touches. Do you think what we saw from him was a sign of his willingness to sacrifice for the team? I'm not talking about sacrifice with the contract, just for the team and how he was able to play offensively. Or was that an indication that the Knicks still haven't fully unlocked him offensively and there's just another level to his game going forward? Two things. One, I understand he scored less and took less shots. I don't know how you could say that someone sacrificed when the conversation in real time as it was happening was like, oh, this guy is the most important player on the team to their offense. And frankly, their defense, too. We played outstanding. So it's like, yeah, he might be sacrificing shots, but I don't think he was sacrificing anything about his perception, either with Knicks fans or around the NBA. That's one thing. The thing with the unlocking Kat conversation, I'm going to make a plea to everybody out there. Could we finally put this one to bed? I'm asking politely because we've been asking this question about Kat since he's entered the league. And I think where I've arrived at, at least, is like he's a very nontraditional player. You know, there's a little Jokic, there's a little KD, there's a little, you know, insert your more traditional center here. And he's just a little bit of all of those different things. And I think the reality with Kat is it's never going to be everything you want all the time. But it's about making sure that when he's out there, he is helping you win in some ways. And honestly, a lot of that comes down to maximum effort on defense, which we saw in the playoffs. and like doing the dirty work like was he more valuable in any capacity than than hitting the boards and like grabbing really valuable offensive rebounds getting putbacks throughout the playoffs like that stuff matters too in addition to all the stuff we spend so much time talking about i love that you made that point because i think when people say unlock it's like can we get him to be this 25 point you want everything right but but is that what the team needs right and i think you saw through the postseason you saw what the team needs which is what you talked about the little things, right? Putting in the little dirty work, getting boards, which he was a fantastic defensive rebounder. The team had Mitch, who was a fantastic offensive rebounder, best in the league. He was doing all those things. Setting screens, making the passes. You're right. But I think, you're right, everybody wants it all. They want a team full of five 25-point-per-game scores, which is not going to happen. But guess what? If we got that from, if we got all the things that Kat is capable of doing all the time, he's one of the five greatest players who ever lived. There's boundaries to this. Right. No, there's boundaries and there's levels to this. CP, speaking of the center position, and we were talking about this before we started recording, look, we know the Knicks lost Mitch to Boston, and fans felt a way about it. They wanted the team to come back, and understandably so. He's a guy that grew up, homegrown guy that came up here, but they bring in Andre Drummond as his replacement. I guess two-part thing for me. How much does losing Mitchell Robinson change the way this team can defend, particularly against elite front courts that they may face, And are you comfortable going into the season as a Knicks fan with Andre Drummond as the backup center? Mitch is a huge loss. You know, he was a signal caller of that defense. As he got more healthy, he was still switchable. He was still able to hold it down on switches, on the perimeter, still get those blocked shots, still impact at the rim without even blocking shots. And so I thought what made the Knicks super strong, as Macri said, was that defense was formidable, and then you could sub him out, bring Mitch in and really not skip a beat or even be even better on the defensive end and so I think that's going to be a huge question mark going into the season now if you stack up Drummond against Mitch look there's areas where Andre Drummond gives you a little bit more than Mitch right his passing a little bit better maybe you can put the ball on the floor where you can trust him a little bit more, his finishing at the rim is atrocious it's still it's still not up there against Mitch but there's a little bit more fluidity in his game now one of the things I I wondered, I looked at it yesterday, and as we talk about Drummond being up there in offensive rebounds with Mitchell Robinson, one of the things I talked about with Mitch was, in particular, we mentioned Jordan Clarkson as an example, and his ability to offensive rebound, and Mitch was saying, well, a lot of that is because coaches are putting two guys on Mitch. And so I'm wondering, does Drummond have that same gravity as Mitch on the offensive boards, where how many times throughout the years did we hear coaches say, we're scheming against Mitchell Robinson to make sure that we're not losing on the defense side. Does Andre Drummond have that same impact? And overall, how does that impact the Knicks' ability to get those second-chance opportunities, which has been their hallmark, their calling card? I looked at it the last six years. They were in the top ten when Mitch was here. So one would think, guys, that with Mitch not being here, there's going to be some bit of a drop-off. And I want to say this. This is not shade to Andre Drummond. No. Andre Drummond is one of the best rebounders ever in this game. Now, his rebounding percentage has dropped off. There was a gap between him and Mitch in terms of offensive rebounding percentage. There's a gap in rim protection for both of these players. But I'm still wondering for the Knicks, is he a backup center, backup five? J-Mac, you can hop in on this too, that you can trust in the postseason. Because that's what it comes down to. Is he a regular season backup five or is he postseason? I think more regular season. The thing that I'm more interested in, because I have a hard time envisioning a scenario, never say never, where he just goes from being right now a prominent part of the rotation to being out of the rotation entirely. And if you're a third center, you're not in the normal rotation unless somebody's hurt. So for me, it's like, do they try to get another five at some point during the year? Or, and I feel like we've been talking about this for six years, we certainly talked about it a lot under Tibbs, are they going to lean into smaller alignments with potentially seeing OG and Ovi at the five? Because to me, again, that's not something I'm asking to see a ton of during the regular season, but I do think you want to get enough of a sample size of it to see, all right, is this something that we could actually go to for 10, 15 minutes in a certain playoff game if we really feel like we need to? I guess the way to put it, can that be a strength as opposed to, you know, we're just trying to tread water. So that's probably what I'm most interested in right now. Well, you got to shout out a friend of the show, Kazim Famude, our guy. Kaz is out here saying Drummond is better than Mitch. Shout out to you, Kaz. Hey, I've heard other fans have brought it up to me too, so I don't want to put Kaz on the island. I've heard this before. I've heard this throughout the summer, and I think some people took it to me shading Andre Drummond. I'm not. I'm just, I can't go that far is all I'm saying. I did not realize that he played against the Knicks in the playoffs. That was how unimpactable he was in that series. Maybe he was a little bit better in the Celtics series, but in the Knicks series. Follow the money. Mitchell Robinson got four years and, what was it, 60 million? Whatever it was. Something absurd. Drummond's on a vet minimum. Like, you get what you pay for, unfortunately, in the NBA. You think Knicks will be upgraded back up center by the time we get to the trade deadline? I think they'll try. And is it necessary, if what J-Mac said, which Coach Brown has talked about, said that he will experiment with some small ball fives. He said that on media day. He will try to do this with some OG at the five. We'll try to see that. If that becomes a strength that he brought up that they can use, is there an, is it, you know, do they need to then go and upgrade the back of five? Do we think that's likely for them to do? Make sure you save this clip because it's going to be really funny when they waive him a week from now. But I wonder if James Wiseman maybe can show. Like, look, the guy was the second pick in the draft. It was a weird draft. There was no scouting. Like, nobody knew really what they were doing. But the guy, like, clearly has some tools. You know, he looks the part. I hope they have him on the roster because I wouldn't mind seeing him given a chance to maybe grow in a situation under a coach that knows him, that worked with him in Golden State. Right. um where there's very little pressure on him you know this year in new york so again because i just i don't know where if you want to go get a better center like you're gonna have to give up something good to get that yeah and i'm not sure that they really want to do that it's gonna be interesting james at the time of us recording this from what i've been hearing james wiseman has the inside track on one of the final roster spots he should we will see and we'll see we'll see how he how he does he's got he's got the inside track there um j mac let's talk about some young players sure And very interesting. Mohamed Diawara has got himself a chance to earn some more minutes here, especially with the next front court depth the way it is. You would think he's got a chance. I think we all – we like what we saw from Mo last year. How realistic is it that you see him becoming a meaningful rotation player this year, this season? And I'll also ask you this. Fans are going to want to hear this. Tyler Kolek, too. Between him and Kolek, who do you think has a better chance of being an important contributor to this team? Well, the last time I heard Tyler Kolek's name, you know, we're sitting and doing this, recording this on Tuesday, was our friend Ian Bagley last night after the game said his name, but in the context of, like, might they be trading him to open up a roster or money, we're not getting into the nuances of it, basically to be able to get, like, a Bruce Brown in addition to a James Wiseman. So that, to me, is not necessarily the most ringing endorsement for how they see Kolek in terms of playing a big role this year. We know Kolek can do big things in big spots, saw it at Christmas, saw it in the NBA Cup. I just, with Alvarado not only here but on a new contract, it's going to be a very affordable contract moving forward, I just don't see Kolek getting a shot unless somebody else is hurt. Now, that said, I'm not sure I feel differently about Mohamed Diawara. And just look at how Mike Brown has deployed the rotations thus far in the preseason. I think he feels pretty good about Alvarado, Deuce, Schammett, and then Drummond as the backup five. And then you mix and match with Harden and Obi and Bridges, you know, off the bench and whatnot. So I think he's going to get chances. From what we've seen in the preseason, I think there's the flashes of excitement, but there's also the reminders that this is still a very young player who still has more to go before you can count on him in big moments, in big spots. Where are you on these? Yeah, I'm with him on Mo. I don't see him just getting dropped right into the backup rotation just yet. Maybe just similar to last year. Maybe it's five minutes here and there on a given night, depending on what they need. But as J-Mac said, you sprinkle in those four guys and then add in a starter. Is it Cat who starts off the second quarter again with that second unit to give them a bit of an engine? But with the Alvarado and Kolek dynamic, I still think there's going to be times over the course of an 82-game season where Alvarado doesn't give you enough playmaking. Sometimes he just falls flat in that regard. Now, as J-Mac said, does the politics overtake the need for more of an engine at the point? I'm curious to see what Tyler does in year three. He's gotten bigger, which I expected him to. And you could see in that third preseason game against the Timberwolves, he's working on his inside shot, trying to get shots in contact. That's what he was working on with Chris Brickley a lot over the summer. And so I'd like to see him get some more reps with that unit. He had the experience last year in the NBA Cup and during the Christmas game, and they could still use him. And if they do trade Deuce, that could be another slide up for another guard, albeit undersized, depending on what they get in return. Yeah, and you bring up a good point that Ian had reported, a friend of the show, Ian Begley, had reported about, Hey, you've got to watch out for some of these moves. Could be Kolek, could be Dottie, who got some more minutes. The most recent, you're shaking your head. I'm sorry. I'm sure he's a very nice young man. Oh, my gosh. Oh, man. But I just don't really see it. Does anything good come after when someone says, I'm sure somebody's a very nice... No, no, it's not. Nothing good comes after that. It's like, but, you know. Yeah. Okay, you're done. There's no hope for Pacome Dottie? I mean, look, he's young, but I just... So, look, the jump shot seems legit. We've been hearing for two years the Knicks love what they're seeing in the practice facility, which, as many have pointed out, they said the same thing about Deuce for two years. And then we saw it come out, but Deuce had a, you saw it from the first time Deuce McBride stepped on a court. There was a dog in there. The defense jumped out. You know? And he had a knack for just, like, he made good things happen. I don't get the same sense when I watch Paco. Yeah, I think what I'd say is as we are ending the preseason, I'd tell people watch how much he plays. Might be a little bit of showcasing going on there. Just something to keep your eye on. That's all I would say. I want to talk about the contract stuff with you guys. Because the Knicks announced last week at the time of the statement that they were tabling contract talks. J-Max over here laughing. And Kat said he was very disappointed with it. Now, I found this fascinating. Me and Stefan Bondi have talked about this throughout the preseason from media day that we thought this was going to be one of the most fascinating things of the preseason. Kat said he was disappointed by the decision. I'm going to start with you first, CP. What was your reaction to the organization making that announcement last? week and especially so close to the start of the season and are you concerned about the way everything's happening with these contracts are you concerned about it becoming a distraction yeah i would say you know the cloud that we were on riding into the with the championship that we talked about earlier it's all gone now we're back to being to being the knicks right it's contract it's just that in the third and now there's there's a cloud over it it sucks right Because you go back to the postseason last year, James Dolan, his speech, and I need you to sacrifice, and no sex, and all this, and these guys went at it, and they got it done, right? They go out and they get it done, and now it's like you want to reward these guys, and they should be rewarded, right? But he clearly has other objectives here, so it's a bad look. It's a bad look on the organization. I do think they will get something done eventually. I do believe that it is for the best to table things. if clearly they are far apart on things and this is going to drag on. So it is best to say, you know, let's hold off. He still has the player option. You still have the offseason to figure things out. And then you go from there. Are you concerned? And I put Kat at this because this also affects Josh Hart, but not as much because Cat's got that player option. But are you at least a little concerned about Cat? And I got to credit my colleague, Stephen Bondy, who brought this up to me. When we saw how Kat played when the trade rumors existed last year, right, with Giannis you saw how that impacted him does that make you more concerned about how this could affect I'll put I'll project this here I do not think that this is going to impact the locker room because I think the leadership's just too good in there yeah right I don't see this fracture in the locker room but are you concerned about how it might impact Kat individually because of his relationship with the Knicks because I think he's a player that would want something done before the start of the season to put his mind at ease I would say I think Kat is a player that has shown us over the years um if you're a fan of a team that he plays for you want his mind to be in the right place uh you know that said i think he uh you know John Krasinski over the Athletic did a great interview with Kat that came out a few weeks ago and i that to me spoke to a guy who is at peace with his his basketball self with his basketball journey and now he wants to feel respected i'm not saying that the perceived lack of respect you know is going to pour over onto the court like just from what we see in the preseason i think he looks he looks like that you know he looks good um but i it's a it's a dangerous game is the term i keep coming back to that they're playing with him and it like yes it could go right if if things fall in the Knicks' favor it could also go poorly in some different ways so i just it's um certainly a bold strategy, uh Cotton, I think is what the good side yeah so I I do want to talk about the ownership team side of this too because I do find it fascinating how fans look at ownership and teams that they root for now if we're just keeping it a buck here yeah okay fans have not always looked at the ownership of this Knicks team very favorably over the years particularly last two decades so right is that right yeah now it's like you said it's been a high and things have been good right and then you had was it two days after the title James Dolan was on WFAN talking about they can't go past the second apron before this was before game three before game three yeah that's right before game three that game uh before that game right and his position on staying below the second apron seems like it has not changed that at all whatsoever from everything that we hear that's an important part of how the Knicks are going to shape their roster going forward. This is going to impact them. I'll start with you on this, J-Mac. How do you feel about that approach, considering this team that you root for just won a championship and that the front office is going to be making these decisions based on not going over the second apron that could affect or impact their chances to repeat this year or just long-term prospects of keeping this window open where they can compete? You know, I think with most of this stuff it's a it's a more nuanced conversation than we make it out to be sometimes because like with Mitchell Robinson we talked about before did they diminish their championship equity let's say this year by allowing Mitchell Robinson to walk and walk to a competitor at that and having Andre Drummond in his place uh no disrespect to anybody who thinks Andre Drummond is great but yeah now did that diminish their championship equity by a percentage point if that i don't know but it diminished it might there be a even putting second second apron stuff aside might that still have been the right decision for the long-term health of the franchise absolutely the cat thing is different and i think it's more complicated because it's not as simple because you could respect James Dolan if he was coming at this from purely from a perspective of i'm not going to pay for past performance just because the vibes are so high right now it is my job as the steward of this organization to put the team in the best chance to win the most amount of times for the most amount of years moving forward. If that's where all this came down to, I might feel differently. I don't feel that that's where he's coming from. One, because I think his reasons for not going over the second apron have much less to do with the logistics of contracts, weighing down your books and second apron penalties and that stuff, and more to do with his stance on revenue sharing and maybe his grudge with the the league but even more than that as many smart people have have explained there are you can go over the second apron and it not necessarily hurt you and i think the Knicks are in that unique position right now where they could they wouldn't they're not over it this year and they don't have to be even over it next year and then once they go over it then they could stay over for a year or two and then dip back under and all of a sudden boom You have your six-year window, which is all you could expect in the league today. So I don't agree with Dolan's stance, both the stance in and of itself and his reasons for it. But I also, look, it's not my money. What do you say? Do you feel like this compromises the Knicks' chance to, A, repeat this year and then compete long-term with Dolan's stance on the second apron? Well, you have the team that you have this year. They have as good a chance as anybody to get back and win it. Now, we'll see what the Mitch for Drummond swap, how that impacts them. Clearly, they need to be healthy. I'm with J-Mac. Look, you guys know I'm a Mitchell Robinson guy. Was it the best thing for them to do long-term for him and his questionable durability? Probably not. So that was more emotion versus, you know, financial decisions. And he did what was best for him. I'm with J-Mac. I think part of Dolan's calculus is his revenge against the league and the revenue-sharing concept. He's never been a fan of it, but I also think that he does understand some of the implications of the second apron going over it some of the operational concerns now it's it's Leon's job to present him a formidable plan in which you know do they go over for a little bit and then try to get back out how do they do that but I think that also weighs in on how much they're willing to give Josh Hart in the long term. Oh, yeah, it has to. It's got to. It's got to have a factor. And I think the frustration for some fans is when you just brought up Leon Rose and company, and we have, all of us here, praise the job they've done in the team building, how they've circumvented the cap and the second apron over the last couple of years. But then you wonder, are they kind of handcuffed now with what they are able to do in terms of flexibility, moves they're able to make, and how long they can keep that window open? I think it's all things to consider. I want to ask you both. He did say he was willing to stretch, but what number does indicate stretch? And we don't know. We don't know that. We don't know that. It would be nice if we knew. Right, right. But that's all. And for calling it out, it ain't 200. Damn sure it ain't 200. And just to be clear about this, because I feel like there's always misperceptions with the cap stuff. If you don't pay Cat and he decides to leave We don't have to get into next summer's free agents or anything. But it's not as if you get that salary slot back. It vanishes into thin air because of where the Knicks are cap-wise. So you have to figure out, okay, well, now are we getting into a trade market? I just find that the world that exists where you're letting this go down a dark path, there's some really scary stuff at the end of that, potentially. Or, in fairness, to James Dolan and Rose, everybody, this could work out in their favor also. As you say that, I'm wondering how they're looking at this. Because you talked about the, what did you say, dark path? Dark path. They could end up at the end of this. I wonder if they're looking at this and saying, well, what would the trade market be like for Cat? What would it be if he hit the open market? Dare I say he declined his player option, which I don't see him doing, and went to the open market next year. What would that look like for him? Is there a robust market? I wonder if they're looking at those options, too, and saying, hey, do we have maybe more power towards him coming back than we might actually think or not? Look, they're always going to have, not officially, but they're always going to have right of first refusal, right? Like if someone comes and gives him X, they will, I'm sure, have the option at that point to match X or go to Y or whatever the case may be. But, you know, in terms of what the market would be for Karl-Anthony Towns, I keep going back and referencing Trey Young from this past summer. All it takes is one team, you know, and it took the Washington Wizards for whatever. Who cares what their reasons were? They had their reasons. But they gave him essentially a max contract or the equivalent of what another team could have maxed him at. You're going to have teams with money to spend, and it would not shock me if some team out there looked at Cat and said, Hey, you know what? What else are we doing with this money? Let's go bring in a guy who we know is an all-star caliber player. Yeah. But is that really what he wants to do right now? Well, that's the unknown. But see, you just won a championship in the greatest city in the world. You are the king of New York. Now what? Are you going to go to Memphis and say, I'm going to go play with Campbell's and these guys? Are you going to go to the Clippers? Are you going to go to LeBron James and take a shot to Memphis too? I mean, no disrespect. The beautiful, great barbecue. He was looking at real estate in Milwaukee. As I said, maybe he found a great house on, is there a lake by Milwaukee? not far but yeah but he didn't want if you read that story from John he didn't want no parts of Milwaukee okay i don't want any parts i don't think he's going no disrespect against any midwestern cities i don't want to get us in trouble here i don't think he's going to most teams but i do think it's it's not a coincidence there that there are a couple of teams in California that again should have cap space clippers warriors it's a dead end they can't You can't even build a team. But that's how they're going to get people. Oh, yeah. They're going to throw money at them. I know, man. You can't do that if you're capped. Your point, to go back to your point, which you're not wrong about, you're looking at it from the sense of why would he leave here? He said he's wanted to win here. And I believe capped when he said this. I think it's very sincere by him. He's wanted to win here. He just got married. Yep. He's had himself a great summer. He's doing all these appearances, all this dope stuff. You're looking at it and saying, why the hell would you want to go anyplace else? And he's willing to take the car. he said he's willing to take that, i believe him on this too i want to be very clear about that i believe him on this too but what happens if you get too frustrated i'm going to your dark path i'm kind of combining what both of you were saying see if things go too long and you're like man forget these guys these guys have and i don't say this in a derogatory way because it's about everybody it's Jalen Brunson too these guys have massive egos and if if you don't get here if you don't have that kind of belief in yourself it's impossible what's your worth to be clear you know There's a lot of money planting trees in L.A. too, so. Yeah. What's not to like? No, but I do think, see, that's what makes it fascinating is what both of you were saying. The point of, you're looking at this too as a fan. You really going to let this go? You just won here. Did you see what the parade was like? Did you see what the energy was like? We all experienced it. And, yes, but I also understand what Cat's going to, where he's like, yeah, I love all that, but I want to get what I'm worth. You got to pay me what I'm worth. Like, you're not going to be giving me, I'm taking no ----. Brian Fonseca said this to me on the show, Joel Embiid money, guys that I'm better than, and you want me to take that kind of pay cut? I get where he's coming from. And also, look, I don't know how online Cat is or his circle is, but it's interesting, the guy just won a championship, you know, as he said, he answered every question, what are they going to say about me now? And there's a lot of people out there right now, Nick fans, who are like, 200 is more than enough for this guy. I loathe that argument. I hate that argument because, and I've said this on the show before, I don't care what you do for work. If you're working someplace and you're looking out at your peers and what you're doing and you feel that you're worth a certain amount and other people have not produced what you've produced. So let's think about what Cat has done. What he's done recently, he's been to at least three conference finals in the last, what, four years. One with Minnesota, two with the Knicks. Won an NBA championship. made an All-NBA team in that time, multiple All-Stars. I want to be compensated as such. You can't give him a Jalen Duren, you know, Trey Young type of deal. Because you know what he's saying? You know what he's saying to those meeting guys? I'm better than those dudes. And he's right. He's right. Every Nick fan should be saying, pay Cat what he's worth. You know, because of everything he just – I've been harder on Cat than anyone out there. This guy did everything that he was asked of him. at the time he needed to. And, I mean, needless to say, they don't win the championship without him. No. No. And you've got to take, you can't, none of us here are making $200 million. If you are, y'all can hook me up, right? But it's not about how much he's making. It's about what that person is worth and what they should make, right? I don't care what you do for work. You should fight for what you're worth. So I support Cat in that regard. Now, there's the business of it and all that. We talked about all that, but we'll see. It's going to be fascinating. the last thing on it yeah sure these are human beings like he again they got to this level with with massive egos um you know if if someone puts out a list of best Knicks content creators tomorrow and i someone has cp at number one and me at number two i'll be like come on you're like yo man forget cp i don't know i don't even know why i sat with him on that show but like it doesn't matter who you are or what you do you you know everybody listen that's a great point we all love each other here and everybody here is trying to do the best that they can we support each other but we're trying to be the best there's nothing wrong with that there's no hate on that that doesn't mean cat's hating on the next man to your point doesn't mean you're hating on cp or vice versa that's not the energy there is but everybody wants to be great at what they do right and we we all talk to each other and be like yo man i like this as you did this is dope you like this you did this is dope this there's nothing wrong with that and it doesn't make him greedy no it It doesn't mean for me. I want you to get the best deal with whatever company you're dealing with. The same for you or you for me. We all want to see that. Like, why would you not want to see somebody else get what they're worth? And I'd love that you brought it up that it's about humanity. Because you're so right about that. If you're human and you care about your brothers, you're going to want to see them win as well, too. And there's nothing wrong with that. He deserves it. And we've never really seen this type of precedence. Like, you just won a championship. You're the key piece in winning the championship And then the next season the team is saying Well you gotta take a haircut Like not even in any job Does that happen right When you talk about humanity If you have an all star year at your company Whatever you're doing And they say hey man you ain't gonna get no bonus You know what you might do You might look to go elsewhere It's a great conversation though But like there's haircuts And then there's haircuts If you do the math, four years, $200 million, which has been widely reported, including by your colleague, Stefan Bondy, if that involved him taking the $61 million player option, for him to still get to $200 million in a way that works for the Knicks, he's going from like $61 million to probably in the low $40 million. That's a big percentage of your paycheck. Right. So, yeah. That's the way you've got to look at it, right? Would you be willing to take that? And that's the last one for him. Probably. It's the last big one. But that's the point I always make. As much as I bring it up to work and labor, it's also a different kind of labor. Because when you're a professional athlete, you have a limited shelf life of doing this at a high level. So you have to cash in. And I will always support these athletes for cashing in. And I get it. That's just what it is. It's even different than what we do. But granted, you never know what we do. Anything could happen tomorrow. You don't know. So you have to try to strike while it's hot. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's just the game. All right. Speaking of striking while it's hot, try to have a good transition. Good transition. I'll try. The East has changed. Yes. We were talking about this before we started recording. Some people think it's got a little tougher. You got LeBron James in Philadelphia. Jalen Brown is in Philadelphia. Giannis is in Miami. Tyrese Halliburton's back with the Pacers. Who do you guys think is the biggest threat to the Knicks in the Eastern Conference right now with all the changes that have happened? Who's the biggest threat to them? I'm going to go Pacers. I'm going Pacers. Number one, I like the rivalry that Halliburton is putting out. I like that energy. I was going to ask you if you still had some Game 1 trauma from – No, no, no. Oh, that's all gone. It's gone? Yeah, that's all gone with the championship. Thank God. But I like that. It gives us something to look forward to. First matchup, November 13th. But you have him coming back. Same coach. Chemistry with that team. With Siakam. You add in a former all-defender in Zubac. You have some young talent there in Jalen Walker. Kelly Oubre is always a thorn in the side, you know, as a supporting cast mate. Their style of play, their pace, it's something that the Knicks are not really used to. You look at the teams that they played in the playoffs, you know, that pace that the Pacers play with, if they're healthy, I think they're going to be up there against the Knicks. I happen to agree with you on the Pacers. Also, the continuity is a factor for me. Who's your? Pacers. So we all are on the Pacers. Yeah. Okay. I just think what they do presents unique challenges for the Knicks because they twisted one of the greatest defenses we've seen in the Oklahoma City defense. They twisted that defense into a pretzel, and they could switch everything. When that offense is humming, they do to teams what the Knicks did to teams last postseason. If I'm going to give a different answer other than Indiana, you know. Don't do it. Don't do it. I'm not going to wait. Look, I've been pooh-poohing this team a little bit because I just don't think they have the shooting. But the Raptors are, if they're healthy and they get everybody on the same page and they figure out the dynamic with their best player, Kawhi Leonard, he maybe shouldn't have the ball all the time, but he also does need to have the ball a lot. How does it quickly look this year with Kawhi? I'm just very fascinated to see how it works out. I think they might need to make a trade, maybe involving a former Knick. Sorry, but I think that team's going to be really good. Okay, you know what I'm happy about here? Not happy. Happy is probably a little strong. Neither of you said Philadelphia 76ers. No. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You did the dismissal wave here. See, before I get to you, are you dismissing the Sixers as well, too? Yes. Let me say this. When I was down in Philadelphia for the first preseason game, down in the city of Brotherly Love, they are very excited. Very excited. All the media I talked to down there, very excited. Fans, very excited. Think this team can win it all. I've got questions, personally. I feel like y'all might have the same. But are you as dismissive as J-Mac? J-Mac just swatted them away like they were flies. Like, get out of here. Ton of questions. Ton of questions. It's very, you just don't see these quote-unquote super teams being assembled and just win it all in one year. It's very hard, especially in the NBA. There's a lot that goes into it. Chemistry. How well do they defend? Jalen Brown made that a point of interest. We need to defend at a high level. What are you getting out of Joel Embiid? What are you getting out of LeBron? It's a great name, and I'm sure that's a reason for the excitement. It's fantastic. He's 42 years old. What are you getting from him, and can he be impactful in the postseason, especially on the defensive end? The playoffs, as we know, are a war of attrition. and whatever you've got going on in theory gets put to a test that you cannot possibly prepare for. And there's no way that Joel Embiid is going to hold up in the way that they need him to. And, like, let's pour one out for Ariel Ipporti, lost for the year, but, like, that hurts their team. Now it's Embiid and Adem Bona, and they don't really have a functional way to add a center. They're going to have to make some kind of a trade. I don't know if they're going to do that. But, like, I just don't trust Joel Embiid. I think he's done, as an impact defensive player, I just don't see that as ever. And if he can't defend, like we saw with the Knicks did in the playoffs, you know, I just don't trust that team. And then offense, we'll see. Obviously, they're going to be hard to guard, but, you know. There's too many questions for me. And I actually love that you brought up the LeBron James point about it because when I said this road this summer, we had fans in the comments, what are you saying, you want LeBron to fall off? No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying for all the times undefeated. He's 42 years old. At some point, you're going to see a drop. And at some point, the better point is, can you trust that he's going to play at a high level in the playoffs? I don't know. Heyman already put out, by the way, he's got chronic sciatica and a foot problem. So just in case this all goes to ----, he's old. You know what I'm saying? I thought, shout out to Mac 10, I thought that was interesting when that came out. When it came out, how it's come out, how much will you see him during the regular season? I don't know. How much are you going to see Embiid during the regular season? You went to the playoffs. How much are you going to see him in regular season? He hasn't played more than 40 games in the last three regular seasons. The only thing I'll say, and the day that LeBron picked Philly, I put this out there. I was like, unless they could swing a trade and swap Embiid for LeBron's boy, Anthony Davis, who we know wants a new contract, doesn't seem – I think he's renting in Washington, if I had to guess. Now, it'll be Embiid plus other stuff, obviously. But if you're the Wizards and you're just not really trying to do anything big in the next couple of years, if you could get a couple of future Philly draft picks, that would make sense. And you just ride out the rest of Embiid's contract, to me that makes almost too much sense. Makes sense. I haven't thought about that. Makes sense for both sides. If Washington's serious about, okay, we've got Trey Young, building around DeBanza, okay. And then LeBron rides off into the sunset, having set up not only his boy Anthony Davis, but Maxie's a clutch guy as well, right? So it's like he leaves behind a big three, maybe a big four, VJ Edgecombe in Philly, and it's like a success story. Interesting. All right, this isn't a Philly got game. So don't talk too much. All right, last thing, predictions. This is weird because we're coming off a prediction of a championship. I don't even remember what you guys predicted last year. I honestly cannot remember what your predictions were last year. But let's start with this. How many games will the Knicks win this season And where are they going to finish in the East We'll start with that first I'll go 51 Okay Third in the East Third Finished third in the East last year 51 wins Third in the East What do you say J-Man I got bullied by my Knicks film school colleagues Bullied Yes Bullying is real Into taking the over This was Sean I blame Sean No Well no Actually Sean took the under Believe it or not On the Knicks No it was more Andrew and Jeremy I'm taking the over It's a slight over I'll put him for 53 wins And I'll go two seed. I don't know who's going to be the number one seed, but someone will probably get up to 54, 55 wins. I said this. I did this on our overrun the show. I said 51. I saw 50, 51. I'll say 51 like UCP. And I'm going to go third. Third and eighth. Would it shock me if they were in fourth? It wouldn't shock me either. Can I ask you guys, but most often, sorry, I flip the tables around. What would shock you more, the Knicks win 60 or the Knicks win 47? Oh, man. 60. 60. Yeah. 60 would shock me more. Yeah, I could see 47. There's a question as to how serious they're going to take the regular season. When I say serious, I mean, just to be clear, they're going to want to win. Yeah. It's how are they going to manage the lineups. Yeah. And I think they're going to be very cautious on things with Jalen. They should. They should, right? They should be cautious with Jalen. I think they'll even be cautious with O.G., who, when you look at it last year, had pretty good health. And thanks to them sweeping, the Sixers, that helped them get more rest to get ready for the Cavs series. The Knicks had a lot of, knock on wood, health luck through the postseason, through the year last year. So I think they're going to be cautious. They played a lot of basketball. They played a lot of basketball in the last three to four years. That is going to take a toll. So I think how they manage that is going to be very interesting. I don't think they'll care about getting a top four seed. I don't think they're going to care about being the number one seed. So, 48 to 47 wins could get you at the four seed in the East this year. I think it probably will. I don't know if we'll see a 61 team in the East. That's why it would shock me more. Yeah, I don't think we will. Yeah. All right, so 51 wins, third seed. 53, two seed. 53 and two seed. This is the most important question. Where are they going to finish at the end of the season in the East? And will they win the NBA championship? or do they go back-to-back? Going back-to-back. Come on, you can say that a little bit more in your chest. Yeah, you're going back-to-back. They're going back-to-back. Well, because the injury thing is the biggest thing that concerns me. They've rode it for two years in a row. Two years in a row. They've been in the postseason relatively healthy. Yeah. You don't always get that. And so that's the biggest concern for me. If they're healthy, I think they're going for it. I'm going to follow up for you in a second, but go ahead, J-Mac. I'm going to let you cook. I think they'll make it back to the finals. I do. At that point, you know, if they were to win back-to-back, I think that would evoke the late-'80s Pistons, the Isaiah Thomas teams, which, you know, different era, obviously. And that's back when you could bludgeon other people, you know, into submission. If they make it back to the finals, who knows? I could see them facing Oklahoma City. I could see them facing San Antonio. Maybe a surprise team like we were talking about in Minnesota before we started recording pops up. But I just, to win back-to-back, I'll go finals as far as I can go. I think that's as far as I can go. But, but, CP said it with his chest. They're going to go back-to-back. I love it. You talked about the Pistons of the late 80s. I wonder if this team we're seeing right now is similar to that early to mid-2000s Pistons team. Sure. The reason I say that, good balance. They had the continuity. Now, that team only won one title in 2004. And then went to another finals. Went to the next year. They lost in an ugly series, but seven-game series. Seven-game series with San Antonio, right? They lose that series. They had good continuity. They were forced. I feel like this Knicks team is going to be like this for the next couple years. They're going to be, if they keep this core together, they should be at the top of the East. I don't know if I think they can get to the finals. But I said this last year. I thought last year they'd get to the finals. If they go back-to-back, we know what this title meant to this city. But if they go back to back, have you thought about what that's going to mean to you as a fan? It's like, you know, it's like you can't let people through the door. You let the Knicks fans through the door and gave them two titles in a row. You saw what happened when you gave them one. You give them two? Oh, it's going to get incredibly obnoxious. But still, there's nothing like the first one. Nah. There's nothing like the first one. There will be nothing like this first one that they just said. It'll be great. Don't get me wrong. I'll still be partying. I'll still be at the parade with you guys. But it'll be nothing like the first one. That's just an all-time moment. The follow-up I have for you is, because you said it confidently, you know that that guy in San Antonio is going to be on a mission. And what did he say? He couldn't sleep? Yeah. Stuff, he couldn't sleep? Which I like to focus, Is there any team in the West that concerns you for the Knicks to play again? Is it seeing San Antonio again? Is it OKC? It's OKC. Definitely OKC. I want to see what happens when they square up. We'll see how they're impacted by the loss of Dort and Wiggins and Isaiah Joe. But right now in the preseason, I mean, Sturtz is looking good. The big man's looking good. I mean, they look like they're implementing their young talent very well. We'll see the Tobias Harris impact on the Spurs. I still want to see – I still think their key is going to be Harper's ascension, Castle's ascension, especially offensively, and even Roby, his fourth quarter. Like, can he develop a little bit more killer instinct? I still think they need that. Clearly, when they gave up double-digit leads in every single game against the Knicks, they couldn't close. Does Harris do enough to help them? I think it's Harper. Having that dynamic guard that can take some pressure off of him. If Harper takes another level up in year two, then I like San Antonio's chances a little bit more. But Minnesota, they look pretty impressive, at least last night. I know it was preseason, but look, their team, they're going to be dropping 160 points on some nights. They might give up 170. They might give up 170, but it's going to be interesting to see how they implement Kaminga, some of those guys, when Dante comes back, what does he add. But that two-man between LaMelo and Ant-Man, that looks really good. To be clear, I do think this Knicks core, the majority of it at least, will win another title in New York. But, yeah, no, nothing's going to feel like the first. It's like when you have children. Your life changes when you have your first child. You'd love the second one, obviously. Don't be that parent of, like, you have to. I could say, but, like, nothing could compare to how your life just is completely different forever. I get it. And then when you have, whether you have two kids or ten kids, whatever, it's like. Right. No, I get it. All right. Knicks going back to back. We're saying Knicks at least are going to go to the finals. We'll see. Hey, man, that's another one we did. You know, I always appreciate you guys coming through. New York got game. We did another season preview. Hopefully the people like it. Good? Fantastic. And it's been, like I talk about all the time, I'm very big on journeys, you know, because of how many years we've been doing this. And you go back and you think about the topics that we talked about, the events that we covered. Being together for the OG trade. Being together for the OG trade. The Tibbs firing, you know, last year's preview was big because it's like, what is this team going to do now with so much pressure with Tibs and Mike Brown? And they did it, man. And they did it. It was a beautiful journey. I was so happy I got to, you know, I would say that episode we did right after the finals the next day. I'm so happy to share that with you guys because that was completely dope. So it's good. I'll say, sorry, one more thing on the repeat. Yes. I think Mike Brown has shown that he was not only the best person for the job given the circumstances, but I think he'll be the best person to navigate the repeat. All the things that he's saying right now in the preseason, he wants to implement adversity. He wants to put their backs against the wall to see how they fight out of it. He was there for the last repeat, right, with Golden State. So I think his experience in handling that on top of his experience now as a people person in handling the contract situation with Katton and Hart, he brought him out to do some team building in the preseason, understanding that things were kind of cloudy. I think Mike Brown is right now going to prove that he's the right person. to lead us to the repeat That's a really good point. All right, it's going to be a fun next season. Banner night coming up soon. A lot of us can't wait to see the banner go up. It should be a fun one. That is my guy, C.P. The Franchise, founder of KnicksFanTV, my guy, Jonathan Macri, the dean of Knicks Film School. You guys do, you're both number one Knicks content creators in my opinion. Forget those people on the other list. That's good. Appreciate y'all joining me on New York Got Game. Please follow those guys. Hit the like button. Subscribe for you guys. And we will catch you on another edition of New York Got Game. Peace. And thanks for watching New York Got Game. Boom shakalaka.