What It's Like to Wear Vintage vs. Historical Fashion Daily ft. @Karolina Żebrowska

The beauty of today's world is most of us are given so much opportunity to develop and establish our own personal styles. There are many different aesthetics to choose from to the point where sometimes it's honestly overwhelming. The preference for one aesthetic over another is often highly subjective and lines tend to be blurred between different styles. For those of us who love wearing and making vintage or historical fashion, the same can very much be said. At what point does historical become vintage or is there even truly a defining factor? That's why I reached out to Karolina Zebrowska, a daily wearer of vintage fashion who also has a lot of experience with historical costuming. Since I'm a daily wearer of historical fashion, I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to facilitate a conversation about vintage versus historical fashion and what the concepts even mean. Hello Karolina. Hi Valsi, nice to see you again. Nice to see you too, it's been so long, like two whole months. Basically forgot what you look like. What decade would you say that the shift from historical to vintage fashion begins to happen? The way I always use these phrases and I think it's the way it's often described when people are selling things from this era. Everything post-1920s I call vintage and everything pre-1920s I call historical. It's a way of differentiating things that works because most people sort of think this way. At the same time I feel like obviously things that are vintage can also be called historical because they were worn during specific parts of history. So in this case it goes both ways. So it's yeah, it's all all around messy. We would benefit from like discussing this as a society, like what phrases are kind of outdated, what do we call things. And I actually do the same as you. 1920s is kind of that point. At what point does the 1920s then shift into being you know antique or historical? In 10 years suddenly it'll be 110 years old. At that point do we start to consider 1920s to be historical then or is it going to continue to shift? Yeah I think especially when it comes to the new decades getting called vintage, like the 2000s are now called vintage. I just think it's not good to use the same phrase for such a wide span of fashion history because obviously an item from 2000s like I don't know a tracksuit doesn't have the same historical value and value as an object as a 1930s evening gown. Like there is not a single person that wants to decide like okay I think we should move on from this point now. I don't know who is supposed to do that. Like we don't have a fashion authority that is like okay or a linguistic authority that will like you know shift things up but things are definitely kind of stretching out at this point. I mean I heard people say that something that's over 20 years old becomes vintage by default but then like 100 years from now would just anything during that time span be vintage? I feel like there is a need for a new name for things that are sort of in between or out of these time frames. Neo vintage can we make that? Neo vintage sounds nice. Post-vintage. It's like post-punk, post-rock. Post-vintage, I like that. You can create a new movement of post-vintage. Not that we'd like partake in it but you know we'd at least encourage it. For other people. Yeah you know just make rules for other people. It sounds like a lot to follow. Where is the line between like historical fashion and modern fashion because we see historical fashion on a person but it's a modern person wearing historical fashion. Is your fashion, the clothes that you wear, would you call that historical fashion or are you a modern person and that's just one of the parts of modern fashion like a particular a very tiny trend because I'm guessing there's not a lot of people that dress like you but still you're a modern person participating in fashion like wearing clothes which is basically fashion like that's wearing clothes. So just because not many people do that could you say that that's not modern fashion or is it? If you shortened your skirts to like knee length would that be a modern dress just because it's shorter or if you have a historically inspired garment that's a modern garment just all those like nuances make it really hard for me to like try and wrap my head around what we call historical fashion and why. And I think ultimately too it's sort of like this fact of we need terms in order to define things in order to like have identity a lot of the time I think and it's true I get asked a lot of the time if I live like a historical lifestyle and I'm like I work in tech you know I have a phone I have a computer I like to garden and take care of animals and turn butter and do all that stuff sure but that's just like trying to keep alive some of the old forgotten crafts I think. There are some people obviously who like live more of the Victorian life in the day it is modern people wearing historical fashion and I guess yeah they didn't go back in time that's still like modern people making choices for themselves but they're still modern people dressed in a particular way. Yeah and I think this is also where a lot of the you know vintage style not vintage value stuff comes in too a lot of the people who are in historical fashion are actually very modern in regards to their ideals and values and the same goes with vintage fashion. I feel like maybe it has to do with how subcultures like fashion subcultures were developing where people actually did express like their political views through clothing and now maybe people associate what you wear with your views if someone sees someone that's dressed conservatively they would also assume they have traditional views and values so that but also in the modern era where clothing is so far like detached from your views you can have someone dressed all pink that listens to metal it's not as intertwined as it used to be I feel yeah it's important to like note that when expressing yourself that this is not necessarily like who I am it's just the aesthetic that I'm into. When I lived in Iceland people often thought I was like Amish or something or like living in one of the communes out in Iceland because I'd wear a bonnet a lot. My friend we were walking through Ikea once there and she's like yeah everyone keeps like looking at you really weird and and it's just so annoying and why can't they just you know accept that that's just you're just wearing a bonnet it doesn't have to mean anything more than that. Yeah yeah just let the girl wear her bonnet. That's the beauty of this modern world things can contradict each other and still work and I think in fact that's where we get some of the coolest fashions are things that are very much anachronistic things that kind of tie in the modern with the historical. I love doing that when I'm in a historical costume and that's actually the easiest way to make people to stop staring at me is like being on my phone because then they're like oh so she's not for me to take pictures because she's actually doing something like she is a person it's not just like a character in a costume. What would you say are your favorite and least favorite parts about wearing vintage fashion and then also historical fashion since you have experience with that as well for events? I'm guessing my favorite part about wearing vintage fashion is that it's pretty and it stays pretty like it doesn't go out of fashion I love that like I remember the pain of like having to stop wearing things because they weren't cool anymore or they weren't fashionable anymore or you could tell that they were from like a couple years prior but just the joy of wearing pretty things without the guilt of them like only getting worn like half a year is something that I really enjoy about vintage fashions. What I dislike about wearing vintage is sort of the assumptions that people make even in your most casual outfit people will assume you're classy you're elegant you're fancy you kind of also have to dress down to certain places that you go to or meetings that you do because you know wearing what would be appropriate in 1940s is probably gonna freak people out nowadays so whenever I'm going to a wedding I'm always like I really don't want to like upstage the bride or make her feel uncomfortable so I'm always like dressing down you know these types of clothes do draw attention obviously they're completely different from what people are wearing and they're quite flamboyant sometimes like you know some of the hats are really crazy. I think it's the same with historical fashion you know you're always really overdressed for situations even in a wrapper it's still kind of considered fancy I don't know even if it's like linen. With historical fashions again I love like all the details and all of the accessories and layers and how like structured it is it's probably a bit annoying to wear outside because people will assume that you're basically their property and you're there for their amusement so they will like stop you a lot of times and you know I don't mind talking to people and explaining what I'm wearing but at some point it's like that's the 15th time someone stopped you that day and you're on your way somewhere and you're stressed out about missing a bus or something so that aspect of historical clothing is partially I would say why I decided to dress vintage because I do feel really comfortable in like Edwardian clothing for example late Victorian but I just don't have the patience for that sort of behavior and I feel like with 1940s it already like crosses the line of looking like regular modern clothing so people are not so bald and trying to like interact with you so I'm in like my safe zone wearing that kind of stuff. I think also for me personally it's it can be really comfortable because I feel like especially as the weather changes you're almost always quite comfortable people are kind of surprised when I say I'm not hot when it's really warm out or that I'm not cold when it's really cold out and it's just because you get the layers down so well and you kind of are so much more involved in how your materials react that you learn what is appropriate for a certain type of weather report that kind of just shocks people I think because we're not used to seeing clothes seasonally really anymore not in the way that it was historically or even in vintage. I have like a skin sensitivity to like synthetics fibers so I can't wear it for more than maybe like a day that I think is a really hard thing about modern fashion is finding good natural fiber garments that are also like cute and aren't just a little linen smock dress which is really pretty too it can be pretty but you don't want to wear a little linen dress to everything with historical you also always have that option of the natural fiber as well it just makes it way easier maybe it is that modern fashion sort of likes to associate natural fibers and natural fabrics with like the casual side of fashion you know a woolen coat would not necessarily be like a fancy garment it's just something that you sort of like pop on same with like linen cotton even like it's all sort of working garments in a way and I wonder if that's because they wrinkle we hate wrinkles nowadays like whenever I post you know a photo of something and there is at least like a tiny sign of a wrinkle somewhere someone will point it out and be like that's a wrinkle you didn't iron this it's impossible to keep them like not wrinkled throughout the day and I think that's why rayon became such a it was often marketed as the ironless fabric and I think that is very much the case because of historical fashion wrinkles are almost inevitable you would have to be like a magician to not make silk wrinkle somehow it's just that's not how it is you know you would basically have to stand around and like not move the whole day which decades do you feel like garner the most attention when you wear them in public it can be either historical or vintage honestly anything that features a longer skirt people will always pay more attention to that and I don't think they recognize different eras to be honest anything like pre-1920s will draw their attention because their skirt is floor length so all of the accessories that are not necessarily worn nowadays which is like huge hats the big hair of the 18th century whatever you wear under your skirt all the skirt supports the further it is from how people dress nowadays the more they will pay attention to that I sometimes prefer just the comfort over looking nice so I don't want to stress about my my skirt getting anywhere but if it's like the if it's the working skirts that I think most of your dresses have this sort of like comfortable length where it's not completely floor length or trained or anything so I think those would actually work nicely it's funny because I was about to to say that's where I think working class clothing deserves a big push for exposure because in our community it's almost only ever the clothing of the elite that we see because it it garners attention because people like pretty colorful things princessy things yeah exactly I think now there's starting to be kind of a push for people who are like well what did just your average everyday person wear and it's like well they definitely didn't wear skirts that were dragging in the mud all the time yeah you know you see so many working class depictions we don't really have a lot of photos obviously the few paintings and stuff that we do have people are generally wearing like pretty short length garments why do you think that it's invaluable that we study and we protect both vintage and historical fashion and fashion history as a part of history in general is still quite a young young branch I would say I can't imagine people in 19th century taking it as seriously as we do nowadays it's still developing part of what's so difficult for us to research is because like people would not save up their clothes they would either like wear them to death or they would remake them into something new so a lot of the accent garments are they were modified at some point so I feel like what we have we should preserve because it's going to make it so much easier for people to study it in the future and and we can also develop that branch of history better and fashion history is not only about fashion it's history so all of the aspects of life put into garments which I love about it it's like you know the politics why certain fabrics were used that how it was manufactured who manufactured that who wore it why why couldn't they wear something else when did they wear it when did they stop wearing it it's all of that it's the part of history that is difficult to research because it's not taken seriously so whatever we have we should cherish and make sure we we take lessons from it and everybody used to wear clothes yeah good point not everybody used to live in a certain country or you know eat a certain food but we all used to wear clothing right that's the kind of common thread that we all have is pretty much the day we're born we get put in some sort of garment whether it's a blanket or something else but something some sort of textile ends up surrounding us if we go way back clothing is a way that we revolutionized existence because it allowed us to survive in really hard conditions I think that's part of why it's not taken as seriously today is because we don't have a same relationship with clothing that we used to as humans when we look at historical versus vintage undergarments because undergarments were such a heavy part of both historical and vintage fashion unlike today I mean we obviously have bras and things like that but they're not nearly as structured or as complex as they were before during the kind of era that you like like the 1930s 40s 50s obviously there were girdles and I'm used to wearing corsets every day what what is the experience of wearing a girdle like for you versus a corset and is it more comfortable is it less comfortable so I'd say like neither a corset or nor a girdle would be something that I'd wear every day simply because I don't have to I wear tights instead of stockings because I find that more comfortable but when I do wear stockings the kind of girls girdles that are just there to hold the stockings up that's fine that doesn't do anything to me that's just like a part of of my underwear when I do have a bone girdle on though um I do find it a bit more uh sort of invasive than a corset I think because a girdle wraps around your body more because of the elastic pieces in it so like if I do wear a corset and I let's say breathe out there is some space between my body and the corset like there is if I move to the right there is space on the left your body is still kind of it still exists inside whereas a girl when the elastic wraps around you it's like there you cease to exist outside of the girdle it's like the girdle is you it consumes you it just swallows you whole it just swallows you so I think maybe that's why and I think that's also why people hate spanks nowadays there is no layer of air between your body and the spanks and I feel like that's something that the elastic parts in the girdle do but there are also girls without elastic panels there are also girls without boning so it obviously depends on what type you wear and and what occasion for and like what for some people obviously wear it for like the nice shape that they get I don't really feel the need for that in the 1940s clothing because it's quite tailored it works well enough for me so it will also be a different experience for someone who uses girdles as shapeler I think I wore a girdle once or twice and it's pretty well fitted and everything but I just could not get over the feeling of it against my skin and the elastic and everything I just I found it really uncomfortable even though I find corsetry so comfortable and I think that's kind of interesting because like you said it's very much kind of why people dislike spanx I think a lot of it has to do with the elastic and the fact that it is just so form-fitting because corsets are fit to you but they're not skin tight and I also think it might have something to do with length because the girdles are usually they cover your butt and they usually go down to your thighs so I think that's also what gives you kind of an additional layer of discomfort because you can't fully move your legs the way you would without it whereas in a corset the leg movement is not really limited. Which decades do you feel the most confident wearing or that make you feel just the most you? I feel like it would be 1940s and 1900s. 1940s because it's just comfy and it just funnily enough even if I wear like 1950s or 1930s for things like photoshoot or something I feel dressed up like I need to get back in my 1940s clothes before I'm like okay that that is me that was a costume that's me if I wasn't aware of people would think of me or like the way they would interact with me and if I wasn't aware that I wouldn't be comfortable in the modern world I would probably wear 1900s so that is my plan for my retirement everybody I'll just start wearing 1900s stuff then. Because if you're saying retirement I'm assuming you'll be of retirement age. Yeah. So would you start dressing like retired people would have dressed back then like in their 60s? You know maybe yeah that would be nice. Well then you'd probably have Oh damn it. Or you can just say you like 1920s and then you could dress up. I'd just be like the 1920s grandma that still wears 1900s or I could just screw it and wear teens fashion from the era no one would notice anyway. I'm starting to really get into 1840s because I like how kind of refined it is. I like when my voice cracked there. Are you emotional about it? Yeah 1840s are just really. You love them so much. I just love them. Yeah I love how refined it is and how understated some of it is while still being kind of complex but not in decoration. They're very I would say like somber in a way which I kind of like. Do you feel like historical fashion and in this sense I mean replica historical fashion or vintage fashion is more sustainable? Yeah I would definitely say so. I mean unless you're like making historical replicas for a single photo and then never wearing it but if you're wearing the clothing either to like a couple of events or on a daily basis then yeah definitely because it doesn't go out of fashion. So as long as you're using it you made a piece once and then it serves you for a long time. I have pieces that I've been wearing for like at this point probably like six seven years and I'm still going to wear them for for probably seven more if not 10 20. Obviously it also depends if like your measurements are changing but then again a lot of vintage pieces have been made with that in mind so you have a lot of pieces where you have really wide seam allowance or you have pieces where the hem is like this huge so you can undo it and if if you need a longer hem there you go. Also the fact that I can just continue to wear the clothing and I don't have to worry about it just not being cool anymore. Yeah that's a huge thing there's none of that pressure. Yeah yeah appease the masses society you know. Even like your friends after a while they accept that you're kind of you've jumped out of the wagon so they don't expect you to like live up to their fashion standards and I'm not saying my friends are some sort of like fashion police but still like there is this peer pressure like if you see people changing their style over and over you think oh I should probably do that as well. When you're sort of like out of this fashion timeline it doesn't really matter anymore because like people do accept that you're kind of out and you don't have to follow it anymore which is also kind of relieving. I feel like sometimes too it can be a little bit isolating because there's a level of like normalcy that comes with following fashion trends and just pop culture in general and when you get out of it you kind of get outside of that bubble of that community because every time we talk about a certain topic essentially we're a part of a small conversational community it can feel really kind of lonely and that's where I think having friends in historical fashion is so important because at least then you have each other to lean on and kind of all feel isolated together so then you don't feel isolated or you can just complain to each other about how isolated you feel which is nice. I think that goes with any alternative clothing style because if we look at like goth for instance that's a really good example there's a whole culture that comes around goth fashion and I think that that's the thing is fashion is such a personal catalyst into creating community and into finding people that are like you because you all dress similar. It takes a certain amount of confidence to dress in something that is so different from modern fashion so sometimes it feels crazy but then you meet up with someone that wears the same and you're like okay so I'm not that crazy because that person does it too and they're pretty nice. Definitely the aspect of community makes it sort of like grounds you, reassures you that what you're doing is not that weird and you know it's okay to just dress up in whatever you feel like. I think you can be surprised too by like how many people are kind of into vintage and historical and you didn't even expect it. I think that a lot of people would wear vintage or historical if they found the confidence to do it because a lot of my friends are like this is great this is so nice I could never do it and I'm like you could just do it life is short no one will judge you for it and if they do they're not worth your attention it's really up to the person to decide what they want to wear and you shouldn't let other people dictate that for you. You have to try and find your own joy I think in life and clothing is a great way to do that and I guess that goes even beyond vintage and historical if something appeals to a person then like you said life is too short to not to not give it a go and worst case scenario like you just change your style it's not yeah not a big deal experimenting with your style is a great way to develop personal confidence and also just to get to know more about yourself because it's a direct reflection of of kind of who you are inside I think or it could be the exact opposite because I know some goth people that are like really happy but but that's also cool too you know it can be like good for them well thanks so much for being a part of this and thank you for having me yeah it was such a good pleasure to talk to you and discuss some more thoughts about vintage versus historical yeah I enjoyed that yeah me too hopefully this discussion has made vintage versus historical a little bit clearer but there's a good chance that it actually only made things more murky at the end of the day we're talking about concepts here that don't exactly have someone regulating their definitions and sometimes that's frustrating but at other times it actually might be a positive thing if you'd like to learn about what it's like to wear historical fashion daily as a male be sure to watch this video next thank you so much for watching and I'll see you all in two weeks for another video