Mgr Jean-Paul Gusching - Diocèse de Verdun

Watch The Life of the Diocese with La Mutuelle Saint-Martin. Hello everyone and welcome to The Life of the Diocese on KTO. As every week, we set out to discover a territory, a diocese and its bishop. Today, we are going to the Far East with the Diocese of Verdun, which corresponds to the department of the Meuse, the name of the river that crosses it from south to north. In this edition, I propose to discover the five crowned virgins from north to south of the diocese and we will go to Benoit-de-Vaux, where a thousand people attended the pastoral retreat to receive the great orientations given in the pastoral paths, the result of a process initiated since 2019. To begin with, a few points of reference on the Meuse, this rural department of the Far East, is faced with a demographic challenge which makes it one of the least populated dioceses in France. The forest covers a third of the territory and more than half of the department is composed of agricultural areas mostly dedicated to large cereals crops. A region marked, of course, by history and, in particular, the First World War. To talk about the Diocese of Verdun, I receive today on the set of KTO, its bishop, Monsignor Jean-Paul Luching. Hello, Monsignor. Hello to you. So, I just gave you some characteristics of the territory. How could you tell us about the diocese in a few words? So, as you said, it's the department of the Meuse. It's a small diocese, but it's a large diocese in terms of kilometers, since it covers more than 200 kilometers north-south and 90 east-west. That's important on a daily basis. And the bishop wants to be close to everyone. I often say that the bishop is the bishop of all. And so, proximity is part of the way I live. I'm not talking in my name here. Well, proximity seems important to me. It's a rural diocese with a complicated demography and an economic life that raises questions. But we need audacity and courage to move forward together. And I also say this, in brackets, I want to tell you, I also say this to the elected officials, we need audacity and courage. We will be able to discover this diocese with you. Some information about you, perhaps some points of reference. You have been the bishop of Verdun since 2014, born in 1955 in Neuville-Cobb-Gull in the Somme, ordained priest in 1983 for the diocese of Amiens, and you were, in particular, Vicar General of Amiens from 2004 to 2013, and then a few months in 2014. Your episcopal motto comes from the Gospel of Saint John, Do all that he will tell you. Monsignor Jean-Paul Guching, to begin with, I was told that you were a renowned chef. So, tell us about this link with cooking. That's too much. Renowned, or in any case, you like that. Tell me, it's a moment of relaxation. And then I also like to invite friends, etc., and present them with dishes that are interesting, not just steak and fries. But yes, it's really a moment of relaxation for me, and I like it, I like it too. But I also like to please, if you will. And so, it goes well together. It goes well together. What do you cook, in particular? Because you have experienced this with the students, the seminarians in pedagogical courses, right? Yes, you are well-informed. Yes, I went to the pedagogical course to tell them a little how we could. Because it is true that when you are a priest, you need to have a minimum of know-how to eat quietly. We have just welcomed a priest who comes from Africa in the diocese. One of the questions I asked was, do you know how to cook? It's still important. But this question, which seems a little anecdotal, in fact, as you say, it also concerns the balance of life on a daily basis between priests who are more and more alone. And so you also have to know... The balance of life, well-being, being together. So it's important. It's an important question. You said it in the presentation. When we talk about the Diocese of Verdun, we think, of course, of history, of the Great War, of the First World War. And you yourself are the president of the Douaumont bones, this monument in memory of French and German soldiers who died in 1916. Absolutely. Why did you accept such a responsibility from civil society? Well, first of all, I wondered what it meant when I arrived, because we say, well, what does it hide? But it hides nothing. It hid that the bishop has long been president of the Douaumont bones. My predecessors stopped. When I arrived, they asked me. Given my temperament and what I am, I accepted this responsibility. At the same time, the bishop is of course in the ecclesial network, which is normal, but also there, he is in the more associative network. So two important networks that complement each other. We don't necessarily meet the same people, but at the same time, the word of the bishop is also listened to. And this is also important. And what does it consist of, concretely, to be the president of the Douaumont bones association? Well, being president of the bones association is also being part of everything that is memory, that is, with the various associations. So we meet about twenty people every three months to say where we are, what ideas we have, what project we have in mind. For example, we have the project at the Douaumont bones association to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the handshake, Colle-Mitterrand. Well, I say it on the air, it's something that will be done in the coming years. But it's important to ... So memory, it's true that I come from Amiens, so the Somme is also a place of memory, but between Amiens and Verdun, there is still a more important memory, I would say, that we live around Verdun and around the Douaumont bones association and the memorial. It's clear. So we are going to discover one of the realities of your diocese and I ask those who follow us, do you know the five crowned virgins of the diocese of Verdun? These are representations of the Virgin Mary, a statue or a painting, which are the object of an ancient pilgrimage and which are crowned to mark the importance that the whole church gives to this pilgrimage. Presented from north to south of the diocese, it draws a 120-kilometer route that can be done on foot, by bike or by car, according to the explanations of Father Benoît Bizet. This figure of the Virgin Mary, as a mother to whom we will be able to entrust her sorrows, so that she can speak to her son, that can speak to the heart of human beings. Then, it is not enough to say, oh well, it's pretty, but it is to allow people to have keys, to tell them, but you too, you can do this. If you think you are far from the church, if you do not believe that you have a faith that moves mountains, well, you can enter through this little way, this very simple way. It is a way to get closer to the good God. It is a reflection that is beautiful, and it is diverse. The first is to allow people to reappropriate these places and to understand the meaning of them. These sanctuaries, they are known, they are listed, there are many visitors who pass by, and our goal is that they can understand what is going on and, in turn, continue the path. They arrived with their feet, they can continue the road with their hearts. And then, since we are lucky to have five crowned virgins, it is to make them aware that this virgin, to which they may have turned, is not alone. She is part of a chaplet, and to offer them to get going, to lead them on a path of faith. It is very beautiful, these crowned virgins. Monsignor Jean-Paul Guching, you wanted to honor them in this program, you wanted us to talk about it. Yes, because I found that, indeed, the Virgin Mary speaks to everyone, Christian or not, because we talk about a mother, ordinarily it speaks to people. And so, since the course is the whole diocese of Verdun, it is also a pilgrimage that can also allow people, I would say less fortunate, to go to Israel is good, to go to Lourdes is good. Today, it is expensive. It is true. Allowing very simple people to do a quiet pilgrimage in their diocese is also important. We do not need to go hundreds of kilometers to live this pilgrimage process. And it also seems to me that the Church must also pay attention to everyone, and therefore offer different things to different people. It seems interesting to me. And then you said it too, when we see these images of crowned virgins, to say, thank you, Mary, as we say, thank you, mother, it also unites all generations, it unites all social classes, it unites all styles of people, regardless of their link to the Church. And at the same time, I think we cannot do a pilgrimage around crowned virgins without something happening. The fact that everything he will tell you is also ... Your episcopal motto. That's it. It is also to say that the Virgin Mary helps us to turn our gaze towards Jesus. Really. And that would be important to me. We come to a pilgrimage, but we go out of it in a different way. Something is experienced, something is lived. And maybe we don't always have the words to say it, but internally, we have experienced something. Is it something that you have put back to the taste of the day, or did this approach already exist when you arrived in the diocese of Verdun? So, the crowned virgins existed, that's for sure. The approach, no, we put it back to the day this year to say to ourselves, how can we move forward? But precisely by paying attention to everyone and by saying, what I was saying earlier, that the face of Mary speaks to everyone. And you yourself are a witness to the reaction, the fruit of this emphasis of Mary in the diocese? Not yet, because I'm not ... The pilgrimage, if you will, is not yet well established. You are developing it. But I think that in 2024, we will propose a path with ... So, as you said earlier, on foot, by car, by bike, by bus, maybe. In a diocese as rural as yours, one of the challenges is that the churches are open, but that they are also open for something other than celebrations, than worship. What is your project? What is your desire? Absolutely. So, this is something that is being put in place. Municipalities spend a lot of money for our churches to be well maintained. From the point of view of the bishop, I say to myself, it is important that these churches, maintained by municipalities, are open. Open in a different way than for celebrations, because ... Marriage or mourning, there are a few, but you see, it's not ... But at the same time, it is not the building church that calls the Sunday Eucharist. It's not easy, what I'm saying here. But it is the Christian community. So, it's not because we have 24 churches on one parish that we need to have a mass in these 24 churches. But, on the other hand, that our churches are open for places of meeting, places of fraternity, and in affectionate and motherly ties, it seems important to me. So, indeed, I am preparing a convention on this. That was my question. What are the criteria for opening these churches? Because it can also raise questions. Sometimes, some Christians are moved to see that cultural proposals, not necessarily of very good taste, can take place in religious buildings. So, it's not very good taste, where we will have to be careful so that it is really in coherence, since churches will remain sacred places. So, we don't do anything about it. But between not doing anything about it and the fact that the church remains closed all year round, there is a measure to be taken on this. In September, as every year, Catholics from all over the diocese of Verdun gathered in Benoit-de-Vaux for the return, and the opportunity for you, Monsignor Guching, to give them pastoral guidance, which follows the synodal process started in 2019 in the diocese. Our reporter, Ophélie Marien, attended this day. It is at the sanctuary of Benoit-de-Vaux that the faithful of the diocese of Verdun gather for their return party. It makes me feel good to come. It also rejuvenates me in my faith. I have faith in this Catholic Church where everyone supports each other, everyone carries each other in prayer. And so, I tell myself that we will inevitably find a solution for the Church of tomorrow. The church in Meuse is faced with many challenges, and this diocesan day is an opportunity to reflect on them all together. Armand, who was confirmed in the diocese this year, wishes to get involved in the local church. It is a department that is very rival, so it is a department that is broken, so the diocese has this challenge to be able to register in this department, gather the different parishes and bring them to life. It is also a challenge for the young people. The diocese has a lot of work that awaits them, but it is also the young people, the newly confirmed, the confirmers who will arrive, it is also up to them to be a force of initiative. The territory is still wider for the 18 active priests in Meuse. Father Gauthier has been a vicar for a year in two parishes in the south of the diocese. We are stuck, we are in operation, and we are thinking about how we are going to grow or manage a territory that is getting bigger. But I think what is fundamental, and the bishop also says it, is the theme of our days of return, let's dare Christ, let's hold on, let's move forward with Christ. Holding Christ as the central point of our Christian life and of the community is also a great humility. It is to accept that we do not always control the situation. Marie-Noël is responsible for the diocesan service of the formation. She has worked a lot on the synodal process that began in 2019 in the diocese. She has, in particular, cleared the ascents made by the faithful. What struck me is that by analyzing people's needs, it is the need for conviviality, the need for fraternity and the need for celebration. The desire to get together is present more than ever, and some are ready to change their habits. I say to myself that maybe it would not be completely incomprehensible as today, for example, to regroup, maybe everyone to make a little more cars, even public transport, but to regroup to make a family, to make a church together, in a place that can be as friendly as just a Sunday prayer. The day ends with a marital procession in the hameau. The faithful were able to entrust the beginning of the year to the Virgin Mary to continue to dare to move forward with Christ throughout the diocese. There were many things that were said in this report. It was the day of return, but for a diocese like yours to be at a thousand believers, it is also a strong time to start the year. It is the strong time. In fact, it starts on Wednesday until Sunday, and Sunday is really the key day where the guidelines or the strong points are given for next year. Of course, there are pastoral paths, but we can also talk about the pastoral of families in relation to what we want to live with divorcees and remarried divorcees, in relation to the welcome of the Church, to the accompaniment of the Church. When we ask for a time of celebration, a time of prayer, how do we live this with people? I suggest we go back to each of the key points of your pastoral letter. So, the pastoral path with Christ. Let's move forward. There are four main themes. Maybe we can go back to them so that those who follow us can understand what you put behind. Proximity, transmission, rooting, formation. Could you tell us, for each of these points, why did you choose this notion? Proximity, first of all. First of all, because I think proximity is fraternity. It's being able to meet, to take the time to... I'm here at the fair in Verdun. I mean, it's really a parenthesis that I'm making. I held hands and talked with people and had questions at the fair, which has nothing to do with them. But it's an opportunity to meet people. Proximity. It's true that, I think Gautier, as Luquin said earlier, proximity is an important and difficult issue. It's difficult. You can't ask a priest to be close to everyone. But how does the Church, that is, all together, live this proximity? Transmission. Transmission. There's no transmission belt. So, it's done by... It's done through our proposals, transmission, but also through the knowledge of people. We need to know people and know their history. You know, when you become a diocesan bishop, what's important is to know the history. Not just the history of World War IV, but the history of people, the history of parishes, the history of priests. Because that's where we adapt the message we have to say to live this transmission. How do you live a transmission if not with a Church that lives confidence, that is happy with Christ? The joy of the Gospel, says Pope Francis. Transmitting the joy of the Gospel, that's where the transmission is done. But not just by saying, yesterday was better than today. There, the transmission is not done. By being rooted and focusing on the formation of the other two. Rooted in God's Word and rooted in people's lives. That the two meet. And at that moment, there's a connection that's important. And at the same time, it's easy to put it... What do we put in it? How are we going to help people today to open their lives to the meeting of Christ? That's what interests me. How will Christ enter my life? How will I welcome Christ in my life? So it's a whole issue. But an issue through the meeting, through the joy we can bring, through listening. Listening, I repeat, listening to the other in what he is. Because sometimes, we wonder why this person answered us. We didn't understand the answer. No, it's not the life of the person. Once we've discussed it a little more, we understand the answer. You are in the diocese of Verdun, like in many dioceses in France, facing the challenge of the number of priests decreasing. Do you want to work on the priests' ministry? How can you meet the priests and accompany them? My situation is that I want to be close to everyone, close to the priests. At the same time, I can't meddle in their lives. The priests know I'm there, so maybe sometimes I have to do a little more, but they tell me. I'm ready to listen, it's a meeting of priest and bishop once or twice every two years, I don't know, to tell each other how we are doing. But it has to be well experienced, well understood. I am at everyone's disposal so that they are happy in their mission. As well as for lay people on ecclesial missions. With lay people, I say, when you are no longer good in your mission, you have to leave it but it is in dialogue, in fraternity and confidence and a true word that things are said. When I meet priests who are less than 50 years old, I tell them, you are not there to please the bishop. Say what you have to say and things are done. I come back to a priority that you mentioned earlier. You said you had several reflections in the course, especially the divorced people engaged in a new union, the celibates. How is this reflection embodied? It is a difficult question that you ask me because it is embodied through small meetings. For people to confide, it takes time. And at the same time, personally, I don't want to meddle in people's lives. They tell me what they want to tell me and what we can do to move forward. Indeed, it is all families. We are talking about divorced people, married people, but also all families, numerous families, celibates. We have to take into account all families. For the last sequence of this show, Jean-Paul Guching, we will listen to questions from the field. We have a first question from Charlène, 29 years old, who works in a factory near Verdun. Hello, Monsignor. I really appreciated your presence among us at the GMJ. I wanted to know if you could share something that marked you. Fraternity, listening together, and, I mean, helping everyone at the same level. I mean, the bishop with the young people, he is not above the young people. He is with them, trying to live with them, to share their lives. It was a really good moment. Earlier, when we were talking about this experience, you were telling me how it was a strong moment for you, for the young people, because, as you just said, they discover you as brothers of other bishops, they discover you as close to them. It is important for the lives of these young people. That's right. We have to stop putting ourselves on pedestals. We are with them, and the bishops, like the priests, but also the young people of today. Because the young people of today, who came to the GMJ, something happened in their lives. So, whether we see them at Sunday Mass or not, that's not my question. My question is how they meet Christ today and how they are going to live tomorrow. We have a second question from Romain, who is a digital trainer. Hello. I would like to ask the bishop of Verdun what his journey was like, because it is true that we have the impression that you have a journey like everyone else. What is your journey? What is my journey? I come from the diocese of Amiens. I wanted to do accounting studies, but also at the HR level, because I liked that, business law, etc. And then, at some point, you have to decide. It's the crossroads. Which path are we going to take? And then I was Vicar General of the diocese of Amiens and I became a bishop in 2014. I don't know if I answered the question, because we could go on for an hour. But that's already a first element of the answer for Romain. We will now move on to the third and last question from Aline, who is a commercial correspondent. Hello. I had a question. What would you say for a young couple who want to embark on marital life? I have always wanted to get married. I am a believer and a Catholic, and my spouse is a little less. My advice is to love each other, to listen to each other, to talk, and to avoid the unsaid. The unsaid ruins life, but at all levels. So from there, if these elements are brought together, it should usually work. We are already at the end of this show, Mr. Jean-Paul Guchy. I have one last question in a few words. What is this horizon of 2024 for you and for the diocese of Verdun? The pastoral paths are a proposition. There is no orientation in saying, we have to do this or that, but each parish, service, and movement, wherever it is in its life, welcomes new pastoral paths to try today to live the four points that we said earlier, but the first, which I repeat, is really proximity with others. The message has been passed. Thank you for coming on the show. To learn more about the diocese of Verdun, go to its website, catholique-verdun.cef.fr You can find this show on ktotv.com. Thank you again for your loyalty. See you next week.