People Matter EP 10 | Học Google cách xây dựng văn hóa Khai vấn | Lâm Anh Vũ - Former Lead at Google

The first advantage of effective leaders at Google is that they have to be open-minded. Why not other skills, but open-minded skills? Whether you are a CEO or an ordinary employee, you are a person who has feelings, dreams, aspirations, and difficulties. We will help you by listening and asking questions. How can a startup company start to practice this? If you look at the issue of training, development, and investment in humans, it is no longer a cost, but an investment, then everything will be different. If you want to change, there will be a way. A new content from Viet Success talks about the important topics of human affairs, around the closely related aspects of effective business operations with top experts and HR directors from leading companies in Vietnam. People Matter, the first season, the context of important topics in the field of human affairs, with the company's strategic partner, Uptrend, solving the first-class work space in Vietnam. I am Minh Giang, the founder of Newin, and the host of this show. Today, ladies and gentlemen, I am very happy and honored to be invited here by a guest. This friend's story was very inspiring when he spent more than 18 years working for companies like Facebook and Google in the field of training and training for big companies like this, in APAC and Regional. And now he is also a teacher at CTI, the Co-Active Training Institute, one of the two largest companies in the world in the field of training and training. And welcome, Mr. Lam Anh Vu. Hello, Giang. I am very grateful to Vu for this special schedule. I am in Japan, but Giang and the show brought me here to share. I feel very grateful and thank you, Vu, for taking the time for the show. Every time I come back to Vietnam, I have to say yes, right? Of course, I have to come back to Vietnam. Every time you come back to Vietnam, you have to say yes, right? That's right, that's right. I have to come back for Tet, but if I have to, I will come back, of course. Yes, and today, the story that Giang and Vu will talk about is probably about open-ended skills, also known as coaching skills. A skill that I think a lot of people are interested in right now, but with the role of someone who has witnessed and trained and contributed to turn this skill into an open-ended culture, a culture called coaching culture, at a large company in the world, Google. So today, the story that we will talk about a lot is why and how to bring an open-ended culture, bring an open-ended skill in training and training. If we talk about open-ended, about coaching, then with Vu, what does Vu mean by open-ended? Yes, this question is very important because right now, even if Giang asks 10 people, what is open-ended? Even the word open-ended in Vietnamese is quite new. So open-ended, in a simple way, according to the definition of the International Coaching Federation, the coach will be the one who accompanies the coach with creative methods and thoughts, with questions, will help the coach to have an answer that they don't know they already have. The important thing here is that they already have the answer, but they don't know they already have the answer. A lot of people today say that coaching or open-ended is that I will tell the coach what to do. That is not really coaching. It's more like mentoring. Or consulting. Yes, or consulting. Actually, before I came here today, I had a class about open-ended, online, right? After that session, one of the students commented that that session was like a walk on the stairs. I was the one who accompanied the coach to walk on the stairs, and the one who was open-ended, they felt confident that they didn't have to go alone. The coach always accompanied them, and they felt that they could go up to the fifth floor instead of being on the first floor. And I was able to go because the open-ended person, the coach, was always there with me. Because I know that you have been working at Google for more than 5 years, and you are in charge of training and training. So why at Google, why do you value this skill and make it a culture at Google? At the beginning of my journey at Google, I was in charge of business for the Vietnamese market. But at Google, they have a 20% project. At that time, I don't know if it's still there now, but it was called the 20% project. That is, in one week, you have the right to do one day, you can choose one day a week, you can do whatever you want, but it will help the company. At that time, I remember that my boss was very supportive of me, because they knew how strong I was at teaching. So I went to teach for free in the company. I taught to the extent that people thought I belonged to the HR department. All the decisions Google made were based on data, data and insight. So they did some internal research. I think it was around 2008 or 2009. They had a project called Project Oxygen. It was called Project Oxygen. I don't know why they translated the name. So that project, they found out the 10 behaviors of effective leaders at Google. The first point was that that person had to be a consultant. Wow! That was very important. I remember that at that time, they had a program called Career Guru. Actually, the program started by finding internal consultants in the company to teach for free. But the coach at that time didn't know much about the job. So if they were unsure about the job or wanted to be promoted or find another position, they would go to these sessions. I remember that there was no such program at EPAC. At that time, my level was not too high. At that time, Google had a rule that you had to be at a certain level to participate in this program. At that time, I wasn't good enough. So I talked to my colleagues and told them that I really liked it. At that time, I taught a lot at Google. Let me tell you something. At that time, I was one of the 10 most famous facilitators at Google in the world. Because they have a ranking. At Google, every time you teach, they have to give feedback about your teaching ability. And it has all the data. But that's one thing. At that time, it was about 4.8 or 4.9. Because of that, the HR person who wanted to be a coach at EPAC, let me ask the person who founded this program. To this day, I still keep in touch with that person. She quit at Google. I always remember that she said, OK, why not? Because in coaching, you can be at a very low level or at a very high level. Because you don't need to be an expert. Like I told Giang, you're a coach. You don't have to have a direct answer. They already have an answer. You just have to listen and ask to help them find their answer. In the end, she agreed. And I was the first one to join that program. And I became the person who trained the next generation who wanted to become an internal coach at Google. It was called a career guru at that time. And to this day, in Google, the culture of learning to be a coach or CTI, it's not a strange thing anymore. It's just that everyone does coaching like that. Although I quit Google about 8 years ago, I still keep in touch with many friends at Google. They said that to this day, I still invite CTI schools to teach the next generation. They really invested. I remember recently, I talked to a colleague of mine at CTI, Coactive Training Institute. That friend said, oh, I'm teaching a class for HR at Google. From 8-9 years ago, to this day, they still do it. They see the importance of coaching with the company's development. So Vu, can you share more for Giang and the audience who are listening and watching this program. Specifically, based on your observation, how did Google build up, form, and implement this culture of learning to live and exist in the company? This is a very good question. I think they worked very hard. In order to create this educational program, they had to have a foundation. Their foundation was the G2G program, which means Googler to Googler, which means free education. They already built that team. They know how to use the talent of Google. It's not bad to be in Google. You can only get in if you're good at it. What's great is that they know how many people like to teach, and they already have a course. They teach you first, and they teach you the skills to teach. They have a very good foundation. Because of that, they have a lot of G2G teams. I think with that, the next step is easier. At that time, I remember they had a position as head of coaching at Global. Today, they have a very good foundation. More than 10 years ago, they invested to hire a head of coaching. It's like internal training at Google Global. I think that's long-term thinking. It's very long-term. And they focus. Those who were hired to do that position, when you have a head of coaching, it will help you a lot. And Google has another very good program, called Education Reimbursement. They help you pay some of your tuition. Besides the courses they teach at Google. When I was studying at CTI, I remembered that when I became a certified coach, Google paid, I don't remember how much, 70-80% or something like that. That's pretty cool. When you go to school, you come back, you teach again. It's a good investment. That's right. But they don't force you. They don't force you to work for 5 or 10 years. No. But they want you to stay because they see the benefits. For you, when you were coaching at Google, did you get extra hours? And I know that for the International Coaching Federation, you have to get 100 hours to get a certain level, and 500 hours to get a certain level. The more you do, the more hours you get. As a Google employee, when I look back, I see that the most effective activities at Google, related to consulting, have really helped strengthen my understanding. As you said, the Career Guru program is a very important program. It really helps people see the results and continue to invest in that program. And there's another program that focuses on OD, Organization Development Fund. Those who are good and do G2G, at first they said, I have another program. Do you want to learn more? I said, yes. And they teach you how to be an OD. For example, there are a lot of teams at Google, and they have a lot of different problems. They train a team of freelancers in this team. Every time a team has a request, for example, I have a problem with my team about mutual trust, then they give that brief to friends like you. It naturally gives you a new strength, and I remember that about a year and a half, I did a lot of those programs. I worked with a lot of teams at Google to help them improve how to build mutual trust or psychological safety. For example, because that's one of the factors that make a team successful. Those things, the program is very good. But the important thing is that all of this, they do it with their friends, and it's connected. It's not just for fun. If you believe that people are the most important thing in your company, then you will do everything related to that. But if you focus on other problems, then the way you invest and the way you see things is completely different. Everyone will have a different direction and everyone will take responsibility or get a certain success by their own decision. What are the mistakes when companies start or deploy talent development? Investing in talent development is a journey. It's not a matter of one day. You don't have enough resources or you don't have enough money. That's an easy reason. If you look at the issue of investing in humans, it's no longer a cost, it's an investment, then everything will be different. For those who are curious, at that time, although it was based on the OC project that Vu just shared, at that time, consulting skills became one of the skills that led the leaders at Google. So Google, in addition to the fact that Vu shared the programs that Google trained, there was an internal head of coach, and there were even programs from Googler to Googler. Besides that, are there any activities that keep the spirit or the story alive? Because it's not like once it rises, then it sinks. Investing in talent development is a journey. It's not a matter of one day. Because one day doesn't create a culture. As Vu said at the beginning, you have to have a plan. From the leaders, to the programs we do, to the way we evaluate employees, to the way we praise employees, everything. I remember at that time, when I was in business, there was something like that, they had one more thing, I don't know if they still do it now, it's called peer bonus. It's about rewarding employees together. I remember every month, I received that bonus so that I could give it to 5 people. I thought they were doing a good job. When I was teaching, I received a lot of that. Or when I did something, I received a lot of money. And the boss also had another bonus. They could decide who to give that bonus to. I remember I received a few bonuses from my boss to recognize that it's another factor. Because it's also a reward. When I received that, I thought, I was valued. And my boss thought I was doing something to help the company. And of course, I said something very important. I have to do a good job in my business. For example, in leadership positions, if I'm the team leader, if I don't show the motivation, how can I create culture? For example, if a staff member goes to a seminar, but the boss doesn't do the seminar, it doesn't give people a clear message about the seminar. It depends on your choice, right? Yes. And from what Vu shared, I see that besides the seminar culture or coaching culture, there's also a learning culture in Google. Because it seems like Google is very focused on learning, right? We've been talking about stories that I think if the audience heard it, they would say, yes, because it's rich, because it has money, because it's a big company. But I know that there are a lot of companies that want to do it. Maybe the leaders really want to invest in humans. But besides that, there's a lot of resources. So if you look back, you're just a middleman in a big company. But if you think you have a chance to work with Vietnamese businesses or businesses in Vietnam, for example, and you want to inspire them so they can start considering building this culture, what would you share with them? Do we have a day to talk about this? I think there are a lot of things I want to share. First, today, I'm working with a lot of startups in the region, from Singapore to Japan, or Indonesia, or Thailand. You have to know that startup companies have more resources. But young people today, first of all, for human development, it's no longer a cost. Yes, it's still a cost. If you put it on a calculator, it's still a cost. But they don't see it as a cost. They see it as an investment. Especially for startups, young people, leaders, they don't have experience. If they don't get training, how can they manage effectively? And if they don't manage effectively, imagine the business or the startup, when they have a lot of deadlines, difficulties, or pressures, right? About work, about time. How can they achieve those things? I'm not saying all startup companies think like that, but fortunately, all startup companies have that perspective. And this perspective of human development is no longer a cost, but an investment. When you look at it like that, everything will be different. The problem is if you don't have enough resources or you don't have money, anyone can say that. And I think that's an easy reason. Just say it and you don't have to do it. But if you really think in a different direction, I think there will always be an answer. It's not like you have to do it like Google or Facebook. And no one says that Google or Facebook are the top. It's true that they have resources and everything. But maybe if you do it your way, you can still achieve it. And maybe you will become a case study for others to look at. Even big companies have to learn from you. That's what I think. Does that become an inspiration? Do you have a vision? Do you have a vision to do it? Yes. I have a question that seems to be a challenge. Why not other skills but the talent of a leader? Last week, I did a seminar on the talent of a leader for the founders of companies and investment banks, right? For this program, everyone has that question, right? Why do I say that my staff do it easier? Why do I have to spend time and money to ask so that they can find the answer? I already know the answer. Hurry up! The time has come and you keep asking. Do you really know the answer? Your answer in English is called an answer, not the answer. I'm using English pronunciation. The letter O and the letter D, right? Maybe it's one of the solutions but you're not the best solution. How do you know that's the final answer? Why do you think the staff don't know the answer? Sometimes, when the staff is doing the work, they know through the seminar and find the answer. It's even better than you. And I want to tell everyone that it's not like I always use seminars. Of course, I'm a seminar host and I want to do as many seminars as possible. But there's a model called situational leadership, right? Yes, situational leadership. Thank you, Giang. There's a time and a place for the seminar and there's a time and a place for what the staff has to say or what the staff has to do. It depends on the situation. What I always tell everyone is how to try to re-establish the sense of observation that it's right and that's the best solution. It's uncertain. Why don't we give ourselves a chance to do less work because we ask people and they have to find the answer. Maybe the idea is even better and it helps us achieve results that we don't know we can achieve. From my experience, I've been in businesses for more than 18 years. I've worked for tech companies such as Facebook, Google, and many other companies in the region. What do you think are the mistakes that companies make when they start to implement this culture or this skill in culture, training, and training? The first thing, if you look at the cost, it's the first mistake. If you look at the cost, the way you evaluate it is different. The second mistake is that you do it for fun but you don't do it well. That's even worse because if you do it for fun, you don't have a curriculum. The third mistake is that you want to do it but you don't have a curriculum or a system that allows you to teach but you don't measure it. For example, you don't have a way to evaluate employees, leaders, to see if they have a curriculum or not. Or you don't have a system to evaluate work based on a curriculum. These are just a few examples. Or they just do it for a month and that's it. It's like going to training and waiting for everyone to become a teacher. That's a mistake, right? And the last mistake is that the learning process is a journey. As I said earlier, the journey has its ups and downs. The question is if you want to keep going. The ups are easy, but the downs are difficult. You have to evaluate if the program is good or not. It's very simple if the program is bad but is it really like that? Or how do you promote and encourage people to continue learning? For example, if you don't have a program, how can people learn? Who can learn? Can other people know about it? To register, you have to have a system to make it successful and it's a journey. How can a startup practice this? 20% of your employees will bring 80% of the profit. Maybe you should start with 20%. Many leaders want to change. When you want it, there is a way. Whether you are a CEO or a normal employee, you have the right to answer and we will help you by listening and asking questions. Back to the story You are a coach for many startup companies in the region. Do you find any difficulties or challenges when you are coaching? There are many opportunities and challenges. The biggest challenge is that each person has a different understanding of startup. So I always ask what do you know about startup? Because when you ask that question, people will let you know what they are understanding. Usually, people understand what you are doing wrong. That's the opportunity to let them know what startup is. Many people come to coaching and you will be the one to give them the answer. But now, I tell them that what you give will be right in your situation. You and the coach are two different people. What is right for you can be bad for that person. That's the reason why I don't give answers. I often tell a funny story. You should go to bed at 10 am. And you know that if you go to bed at 10 am, you will wake up early tomorrow and have a full energy for a new day. Who do you listen to? Your mom or you? 100% I will listen to me. Because when you know what you want, you will do it easier. And when someone else, I don't mean a startup or a coach, but someone tells you what to do, because you don't internalize what you want. You don't know if you want it or not. Or you just do it. That's the power of a startup. A recent story, Vu did a startup for a guy named Head of Product. He is the head of product of a startup company. When he came in, he was like, what is a startup? Why did my boss ask me to do this? But after that, he said, when do we continue? And then, his boss, the founder of that startup told him that the feedback was very good. He thought that the coaching was very good for him. When I did a startup for startup companies, I also had a doubt about myself. I did a startup for a lot of people but I rarely did it for startup companies until recently. I thought, can I do it? Do I know anything about the startup world? Do I know anything? But the more I did, the more I realized that the most important thing in front of me is a person. You will have feelings, dreams, ambitions, difficulties, and everything. Whether you are a CEO, or a head of product, or a normal employee, you still struggle. Because you are not the one who gives you the answer. Because I believe that you have the answer and I will help you by listening and asking questions. Maybe the question that I'm going to ask Vu sounds like it has a color that is a bit negative. Even though I don't want to talk about negative things. But it seems like people think simply that if they follow a list of questions and ask questions like that, they can become a coach and become a trainer. What do you think about this situation? As you said at the beginning, everyone calls themselves a coach, right? I don't dare to judge those people. But I just want to say that when you do this job, you have to remember that in front of you is a person like I said. The responsibility is very big. And to become a professional advisor, you should spend time to invest in your learning and make it work. Because, of course, if you just read a book or read 1-2 books and spend 1-2 hours watching videos to become a coach, you can still do it. But how much is different? For a person who studies professionally and has the skills and the knowledge and the system, it will help you in a completely different way. That is extremely important. And the second thing is when we talk about the skill of advising, when you go to school, you see that the skill of advising is a common word, but there are about 17-18 other skills. And one thing, I'm probably advertising this, but actually, these 17-18 skills not only help you become an advisor, but also help you become a better person. For example, there are 17-18 skills Let's talk about the skill of listening. Imagine today, if you learn the skill of listening and you go home, you listen to your parents, you listen to your children, you listen to your husband or wife, then the relationship has completely changed. Yes. That is a skill of listening. Ask a question, instead of saying, I have to do this. When you ask a question, it's a skill of listening. Another skill, and I think it's very important, for example, when you talk to someone, they don't know how their body is, what words they are using, what their energy is like. The coach, the advisor, is like a mirror, reflecting. This skill, articulating what's going on. In Vietnamese, it's like describing what's happening and seeing. Because when it comes to counseling, the choice of words, in the counseling sessions, there is a word that the counselor says 10 times or 5 times, they don't recognize it. As a counselor, you say the word family 5 times. This word means nothing to you. The counselor will stop and say, oh, I think the problem is here, but the problem is here. This skill, and as I said, a mirror is very important because the counselor doesn't know, or just the body. One thing I learned in counseling, unless you're a counselor and you lie, but 99% or 90% of people convey information through body language. There are counseling sessions, people come in and look at you and say, oh, how are you today? You say, oh, I'm happy, I'm fine. But their body language is their hands holding tight like this, their faces are shaking like this. You say it's a good day, but they say something else. What's going on? The counselor at that time said, today is one of my worst days in this job. I think those are the skills to describe what you see, hear, and feel. That's very important. I think it all comes back to those skills that help you communicate, and build relationships with people. That's right. I like what you said. You keep talking about counseling, but really, when you say you have about 10 or 18 skills related to counseling, these skills help you communicate better, become more effective because you have these skills. I think people are starting to understand why Google invests in counseling, because like you said, when leaders have the ability to listen, to ask questions, to observe and describe what's going on, they're equipped to work with people and teams. That's right. It's not just Google, because when I worked with CTI, there were a lot of companies around the world that signed a contract with CTI to do counseling programs for their companies. Metronix, for example. Metronix is one of the world's most famous medical equipment companies. Or Lululemon, for example. There are a lot of companies like that and they're getting more and more focused. They learn from Google and that's why counseling is so important. There are some leaders who think, how can I start practicing right now when I don't have enough money to join CTI or my company that has a lot of money like Google? If I'm a startup leader, how can I start practicing this? The simplest thing comes from the mindset. If you have to start from that, and you can start reading a book first to understand more, or you can go online to learn more about counseling. If your mindset has changed, you understand that this is an investment and it's right for your company, then you take it step by step. No one says it's one day at a time. You can choose. A lot of businesses today, especially I know, they really like to test. Let's say you finish school, another team doesn't, and you work, what's the result? If you think it's good, you should start a second team. Or you look at all your teams, they say it's 80-20. 20% of your employees will bring back 80% of the profit or the result of the work. Maybe we started from 20%. No, from 80%, because you don't have enough resources. So it comes from many directions. But I think, a seed can't sprout in the spring. But it has to have a seed to have many seeds, right? So those leaders have to have that mindset first. They have to change first and they want to change. When you want it, there will be a way. Still back to the choice that you just shared. Just like technology companies, we can test a group of 20% or a leader can start reading a book or join two groups. As a founder, a founder and someone who has experienced the benefits of being a founder, do you have any advice for leaders out there listening to this talk show? For those who are learning about foundation or intending to learn about this skill? Foundation is really a very important skill. Not only leaders need it, but everyone should have it. Because as I said, when you become a founder or you learn the skills, let's skip the word founder because when we use the word it's too big, too scary. I think it's simple. When you learn the skills related to foundation, it will help your life become better. Your team will be happier and not happier, but more effective. And when they are more effective, your results will be better recognized. Your business will be more prosperous. I can spend a whole day talking about this. I always say this when I teach about foundation. Not everyone becomes a founder after finishing this class. But the skills you learn today will help you become a better person and your family will be happier and they will be affected by the ripple effect. They will be happy. That's what I want to share with my dear audience. And that's the thing when you are in a business. When people connect with each other, people listen to each other, and that team, like you said, they experience the happiness when they go to work, or when they interact with their colleagues, that team will be more effective. That's right. I believe that. Thank you so much. Ladies and gentlemen, that was Lam Anh Vu. She is a CTI instructor, and she has experience as a founder and has worked at high-level positions at Facebook and Google. And today, I am very grateful for Vu's sharing about the culture of foundation, how to build a culture of foundation and the benefits when a leader, or why big companies invest in this foundation as a new culture. Once again, thank you so much, Vu, and thank you all for listening to the show. And the People Matter show, once again, thank you Uptrend for sponsoring this show, the best office and working space in Vietnam. And if you like today's show, please support our channel by clicking the subscribe button for Viet Success channel as well as Spotify, Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts for more People Matter content. Thank you for listening. Goodbye and see you again.