People Matter EP 08 | Pizza 4P's đưa văn hóa doanh nghiệp vào vận hành ra sao?| Joe Black-Pizza 4P's

What's your definition about the corporate culture? So culture is more about, I would say, habit change than it is about any sort of team builder activity or party. When I look at Pizza4Peas, and I'm sorry for saying this, there's so many things that are missing, but it works. How do they do that? It's because of the culture. How can you make the people love in what they do? We really focus on creating this experience for our partners, you know, and it starts internally. We started saying, in order to make the world smile for peace, we first have to make our partners smile for peace. Welcome to People Matters, a series of interviews with senior HR executives and top CEOs in Vietnam. We are taking this opportunity to discuss the role of human resource within an organization, as well as the essential knowledge, skills, and mindset, and also a lot of the stories required to try in this field. A big thanks to UpChange, the leading brand in workspace solution in Vietnam, for making this episode of People Matters. I'm Minh Giang, founder of Nguyen Consulting Company, and I will be your host for today. And today, this is my honor and privilege to talk about my friend, to talk with my friend. And he's currently the culture and operation excellent director at Pizza4Peas. And he has experience over the past 20 years as the operational, like a consultant expert in HR, finance, and business operation. And through all of it, he has learned that a strong culture is the biggest key to grow. Welcome to Joe Black, to our show. Hello. Thank you so much. Yes. Welcome to People Matter, a new brand intellectual property on business sets. Discussing on key topic of human resource, which are critical to business operation effectiveness. C-level human resource experts from leading company in Vietnam and beyond. People Matter, season one, introduction to human resource fundamentals in strategic partnership with UpChange, Vietnam's leading effective workspace solutions provider. So I know that like you start your career, your career, and you have a solid experience as an operation, excellent operation consultant. What's make you shift from the operation, excellent, and now like a culture, excellent? I would say, honestly, operations was like my first love. I figured out a long time ago, I had a, I started a, my friend started a company, it was a photography business. And he invited me, basically he bought a bunch of equipment and then freaked out because after he put that huge capital investment, he did his first few events and made little to no money. And a lot of it was kind of the way he structured and did the operations. And so I had the fun of figuring out how to take his little business and make it into a well-oiled machine. And I loved that. And I did it again and again through, the next one was a landscaping company. And then I went on to, honestly, I've worked in a lot of different industries, but yeah, I always loved that puzzle of how do you take a company and allow it to scale by systemizing? And so I read books like the E-Myth or Good to Great, or a lot of these things that were very focused on creating this sort of system. I fell in love with that sort of operations side. But then as I started doing it and I'm reading these books and I found a very common theme, and that theme was around how you treat your people. And so in my landscaping company, we incorporated one value, one little value, and it was integrity. And that one tiny little value completely changed how we did things. Oh, wow. And it was very much, it was the behaviors of the team. Our slogan was, we do what we said we do when we said we'd do it. And in landscaping, which is not a common thing here in Vietnam, but landscaping is taking care of yards and trimming bushes and trees and things like that. But it's a notorious industry for not doing what you said you'd do. And so we started saying that, and it turned into behaviors. That was the big key, is this one little core value. And we didn't even call it a core value back then because I didn't know what those were. But that one little core value changed so much. The guys started carrying around a notebook in their pocket and a pen. And every time when a customer would walk up and they'd start talking, then they would take out the notebook and the pen immediately and just stand there ready. Like, I'm gonna write down whatever you said because we do what we said we'd do when we said we'd do it. Wow. And I didn't come up with that behavior. That was one of our crew leads. He came up with it because we had that value integrity. And so it just started really changing everything. So what I learned very early on in my experience of operations is that though I loved the puzzle of operations, I figured out if people love what they do, then they do it so much better. So it's really interesting. And in your experience, how can you make the people love what they do? What I guess I learned is that you can't make someone fall in love with your company or the way you do things or whatever. But you can connect them with what's important to them. And you focus on the individual, the self. And when you grow that, and when you're growing that alongside with the company, people connect what I'm doing at work is also moving me forward in life. Yeah. So in my course, it means that they can see themselves in the company future, in the company mission, right? And they can feel the proud of what they are doing. They can connect with the higher purpose, right? Yeah. So in your experience or in your opinions, what's your definition about the corporate culture? There's a sort of like a concept of that culture is these parties, they're team builders, they're all the fun activities, right? Sometimes when I try to describe my job to my friends, my family, people think I'm the guy that stands by the door and slaps everybody on the butt and says, go get them champ. You know, like that stuff is there and it is important, you know, but it's a launch pad. It's not the whole thing. So culture is behavior. It's how we treat each other. It's more in the day-to-day operation and how you do things. So culture is more about, I would say habit change than it is about any sort of team builder activity or party. Yoshi, our operations director, I love the way he worded it. He said, you know, we did the event and nothing happened, you know? And he's like, and then nothing, nothing changed, no numbers changed, nothing. So why do we spend all that money doing this event? You know, and he made a really good point. And so when I started to investigate into how these events were run, it was very much all about the team builder, you know, and there's a little tiny bit of like, you know, hey, here's some of our core values and a little bit of that. So a big change that I worked on is as we ran our events, we made them 50-50. So it's 50% team builder, but 50% getting value for the individual. So we wanted people to realize something or get something of value they can take away, take back to their teams, take back to their family, but, you know, they get something out of the event. It's mean that like when they get something out of the event, so when they come back, so they can apply in their daily work, daily tasks. Yeah. Because like you just share is about, it's all about the habit change. Okay, talking about the piece of hobby. So what is the piece of hobbies core values or the behaviors? The values, well, we have two of them that are Japanese as the owners are Japanese. We have Omotenashi and Kaizen. Omotenashi is the spirit of hospitality from Japan and Kaizen is continuous improvement. And then we have authenticity, which is kind of being your true self. And then we have compassion is our four values. I guess there are many behaviors that are behind all of them, but I think that's one of the things that Pizza4Peas is so well known for is when you enter a 4Peas, the spirit of Omotenashi is very much alive. So that was one thing that actually amazed me. When I started with 4Peas, I took the time to interview literally every manager. I went to Hanoi, I went to Da Nang, I went to Nha Trang, I even went to Cambodia and I interviewed literally every manager in the entire company. The values are so present and so alive. And that's Masuko and Sunny. Like it's, if I could give a one word answer or a one sentence answer of why Pizza4Peas is the way it is, it's role model leadership. So I quickly learned my job was not to spread the culture. Masuko and Sunny have done a great job at that. But when it's role model leadership, the culture spreads a little slowly. And so my job really is to figure out how can we get that out there quicker? How can we get more people really building it? And so that's what my culture team does. Wow, that's really amazing. So at Pizza4Peas, so they have, like you have four core values, homogeneity, Kaizen, authenticity and compassion. And you are responsible for like cascading down and spreading this value behavior, like quicker, more powerful and more like existent. Yeah. Okay. Wow, that's great. So talk more about this. I guess, so my role covers kind of three areas. I lead a culture team, learning and development and then my JD will never be found anywhere because it was custom written for me. But the other one is called operations optimization. And it's not a normal three to put together. And even having this role, which is it's very much traditional HR handles your C and B and your recruitment. And they do all the paperwork, right? And then they also do learning and development. And they usually have something to do with making it a nice place to work, the culture. Just like I shared, it's about the behaviors. And so how do you affect behavior? I can tell you like two major things that help so much. One is to really understand the intricacies of culture. So become a student of it as well as like model it. But the other two are get it into your learning and get it into your operations. So I work extremely closely with our director of operations, Yoshi. And we have weekly meetings. One was today, but we really focus on it. And probably one of the biggest things, and I can go back to my experience in culture consulting. One of the most difficult things is that whoever you're working with in the operations or in the leadership, they have to believe this and they have to exhibit it themselves. And so I have the amazing honor of working with people who really do. We have a monthly culture meeting. So where the leader of the culture team works with each one of the restaurant managers to help them learn about kind of what's going on. I guess I can back up a little bit. We also do, we ask our partners what's going on for them and what's important to them. And so we survey. And we do a little bit of a fancy survey, but it gives us a lot of amazing data. And so this monthly meeting is meant to work with the restaurant managers and help them interpret that data so they know what things to focus on and what operational changes to make in their store. Because we want it to be at the store level. There's only so much you can do at the corporate level, but when you get down into the initial store, then you can make a real big difference. So having Yoshi 100% behind everything we're doing, I mean, I can't tell you how important that is. Like if that's not there, it almost just doesn't work. I mean, in my consulting background, you get a company where the leadership's not on board and I'll just say, no, thank you, good luck. But when I talked to him about this, what happened, the real story, is yesterday the leader of the culture team, she came to me and she said, hey, we did the second round of these monthly meetings that we had planned to do. And a lot of people didn't show up. From an operational background, I know. Like these restaurant managers, they're super busy. And so when you take a meeting like that, that doesn't, like the world's not gonna fall apart. The restaurant's not gonna stop running if they miss a culture meeting, right? But when I talked to Yoshi about this, Yoshi said, no, that should be mandatory. Wow. Yeah. And I mean, he 100% backed it. And so we came up with a solution and we said, well, let's get Lynn in their weekly management meetings. Not weekly, sorry, we're gonna do it monthly. But in one of their weekly management meetings once a month so that we can make sure that we're working on how to make it a great place to work. The cool thing is, is with sort of like that operational understanding, I realized that, yeah, this is gonna be a tough meeting to get people to really commit to. But if we just incorporate it into their meeting and then I have the backing of the operations director, you know, it made it work. But it's like without his buy-in and his leadership, you know, I don't have any influence over that team. They're not my team, but I can work with him and he understands the value of what we're doing. And then it makes it work. Yeah. Omotenashi specifically really focuses on delivering the unexpected and going above and beyond. We really focus on creating this experience for our partners, you know, and it starts internally. And literally one of the first things I did when I started was I looked into how we listen to our partners. How do we find out what's actually important to them? And I think that there is a lot of companies or the leadership teams that they still confused about, okay, oh, like if I focus or pay attention on implementing the corporate culture, so I don't have time, I don't have enough resource. When you think like that of like, oh, I don't have time for that because I've got so many things going on. Exactly, yeah. Hey, well, let me tell you the story when I started. Like I come into Pizza4Peas, right? And I understand the operations. I understand how things work. I understand how you put the whole puzzle together. And I look at Pizza4Peas and I'm sorry for saying this, but I didn't understand how does this work? Like it shouldn't work. Like there's so many things that are missing, but it works and it works wonderfully. And I mean, anyone that's eaten at a Pizza4Peas loves it. How do they do that? It's because of the culture. You talk to any one of the managers and I talked to every single one and they are so passionate about what they're up to, what they're creating, where the company is going, the vision that it doesn't matter that there isn't a rule that tells you, oh, you have to do things this way. You have to do it that way. There doesn't have to be a structure, a system, whatever. They all understand what we're creating. They understand how to behave based on our values. So instead of giving them the structure, the procedure or the guideline or the process, but they know exactly what they need to do. Yeah. I mean, even going back to my earlier story about having the notepad, I didn't come up with that. My team did. But that's what it is. It's like you've got two options when you run a business. One is you run by rules and the other is you run by culture. Look at the one team member at Pizza4Peas. What's the exact behavior that they need to behave, to be Omotenashi? Omotenashi specifically really focuses on delivering the unexpected and going above and beyond and really just making people feel welcome and at home. But that manifests in so many different ways. Okay. And that's part of the beauty of it. But the way we teach it is more about create the experience for the guests. And it starts, our office is called the WOW Center. The idea, we really focus on creating this experience for our partners. And it starts internally. Because if they don't have a good experience, if they're not having a good time at work, they're not gonna deliver that experience to the guest. So it starts with them. And maybe that the audience, they don't know that you call the team member as the partner. Yes. Yeah. I didn't point that out. You're correct. Yeah. If you have opportunity to talk to the Vietnamese company or the company outside there, like the people who want to embrace this core value into their organizations, what things that you can advise them to consider and to start? I'll share this little story. This was, like I said, I interviewed every manager, included leaders, including Masuko and Sani in my first months at the company. And Sani was, I asked her about kind of just questions about how they operate or how they're doing things. And of course, my mind raced ahead a little bit. And I'd heard this before with like couples that are running a company. Always thinking about how to grow the business, how to make things better, how to make more money, whatever. But that's not what came out of her mouth. What she said was how to make people happy. Oh, wow. Yeah. And that was a blow your mind moment for me like at the very beginning of my career with Pizza for Fees. But that was so cool. But that's where it starts is like it has to start with the leadership. So, and it really depends on where a company's at in their journey. So if a company is at a point where it's like, okay, we know and we realize this as leaders that we want to lead kind of a value-driven or a purpose-driven company, right? We know we wanna do that, but we don't have any of the, what I would call culture elements. Like we don't have core values, we don't have vision, we don't have mission. Then as a consultant, that's where we start. Yeah. Right, you have to figure out, what is your purpose? Why do you do what you do? Yeah, yeah. Because some people, they just do what they do. I mean, tons of companies are started by people who are like, I'm really good at this, so I'm gonna do that. Yeah. You know, okay, but why? Yeah, why? Because it'll make me money. Yeah. Okay, good luck. Okay. If a company has those elements, then you can work with them on that. And sometimes those elements are very focused around money because maybe they thought, oh, I need core values, but I have no idea what they are or how to build them. So I'm just gonna, you know, my core value is efficiency and productivity and, you know, things like that. Resource-oriented. Yeah, right. And so then you might have to, oh, maybe let's do a culture refresh and really like dig into it. And depending on the size of the company, if it's a small company, then you do it with the whole leadership team or the whole team. If it's a bigger company, then you wanna do some surveys and poll and find out. But a really key thing, and literally one of the first things I did when I started was I looked into how we listen to our partners. How do we give them the opportunity to speak up? How do we find out what's actually important to them? Like you can follow Gallup surveys, you can follow like, you know, all this kind of stuff in the media, the news, whatever, that tells you, oh, Gen Z, this is what's important to them in the workplace or, you know, and that's great. And it's probably a good guidepost, but until you ask your people, you know, you can tell me what Gen Z does based on a Gallup survey, but tell me what pizza for peas is important, you know, to our partners. So, and the culture journey, like I said, it's just, you have to kind of start where people are at. So if they've got great core values and a great mission and vision, then you start looking into, okay, how are you getting that out to people? You know, are you living it yourself? Do your operations reflect those values? One thing that I really love what you share is that how can we keep this value of behavior being existent and the operation need to reflect these behaviors. Yeah, and even when we ask the team member or the manager, when we use our common language, like a pizza for peas, the team leader just share, oh, be omotenashi. And they know exactly what they need to do. Yeah. Yeah, that's so powerful. Yeah. Okay, that's great. What challenge have you encountered while trying to instill this culture and how did you overcome them? The challenge there I was thinking about was just sort of the perception of like these events that they're not very worthwhile. And so like kind of how we overcame that is to really focus not only on the fun, but also on people getting value out of them. We've done multiple events now. The first one that my team took on was an annual MVP event where it was all about recognition. And then after that, we went on and did what we call the culture day event. At that event, that was the one that Yoshi had that feedback of, well, okay, we did the event, but nothing happened, nothing changes. You know, in that event, it was team building and the team building, they had, you know, different, like the game sort of focused around the values and it was a great introduction of the values. But the thing that I saw that was lacking from that event was one, there was no learning of the behaviors behind the values. So what we did differently this year was we said, okay, we're still gonna do the team building because it's fun, it gets people excited, it's energy, and it's a launch pad, right? And then the second half of the day is workshop. And so then we would spend about four hours, you know, learning specifically about the values. Behaviors and the values. And the behaviors, right, exactly. But then it doesn't end there. Again, this all has to be sort of cyclical, right? So then we started theming every month as one of the values, right? Every month, one thing. Right, so we want to, you know, deep dive into like the values, but we want to do it in many different ways. So we've got, you know, communications campaigns that are going on constantly in the stores. We actually send out like physical, we call them shout out boards, but it's basically they have themed for every month and it'll change every month, physical activities that the team can do. And so like one side of it's gonna have something that is up on the wall all the time. And then once a month you flip it over and it's got an actual activity that really gets people more of an experience of the value. And we coach, like the culture team will coach the managers on how to like, you know, use that tool. And so there's that side of it. We started also, we revamped the orientation that people get to really focus on the vision, the values. And then we also built, or actually this is sort of still in progress, but we're building individual, like each value gets its own training course. So we've got our events and they're a great launch pad. And then we've got monthly things going on and then we've got built into the training, you know, and it's like, and there's more that's going on, but it's like constantly doing these. In my events, we started saying in order to make the world smile for peace, we first have to make our partner smile for peace. So that was the example there. I think that's the biggest challenge, right? Because it came from the leadership. So, you know, it came from the leadership. It came from the person writing the check, you know, so it's like, you know, how do you make it so they see it? So then, you know, we've got the, you know, freedom to do this. And what really sways it now is you can start to see our numbers rising. So, you know, the retention numbers are going up, you know, like you're starting to see, like, as we measure the happiness of the company and you're starting to see that go up and you're starting to see like the metric. When we like teach about the core values, our big thing is like, how do we get people self-generating? We're trying to teach authenticity. Something that helps a lot with that is to be a role model leader, you have to really live it. And in order to really live it, you have to keep it in the front of your mind. So that's my next question to ask you, how can you measure the success of culture transformation? Yeah. It's measurable in a lot of different ways. And that's the great thing and the hard thing. Exactly. Because it's not direct. The most direct measurement we have, of course, is our like happiness survey. You know, and so when we do that, like we do three types of surveys. We do one every six months that's designed to kind of tell us what's important to people and how they feel about it. So it gives us direction. We do an ENPS survey, and that one comes out every three months. Employee Net Promoter Score. Exactly. And that one's a great measurement if what we're up to is actually working. You know, if the number stays the same or goes down, what we're doing might not be working. So we might wanna take a different approach. But if it's going up, you know, climbing, then we know, okay, what we're doing is working, keep doing it. And then the last one we do is a mood survey. And it literally asks the question, how are you feeling today? And that one's done weekly, but it's super short. And this is- Yeah, just one question only or? Two. So we do one question is, how do you feel today? And the second question is a deep dive. So when we do the six month one, you know, we learn, okay, this is what people like and don't like and what's going well, what's not going well. So, you know, like if you're on a date and you love dogs and your date says, I hate dogs, what do you wanna know? Why? Okay. Why do you hate dogs, right? So you wanna deep dive, you wanna get more into it. And so that's what we use that for. So it's, how do you feel? And one deep dive question to learn more about what we learned from the six month survey. Those are sort of the direct measurements, but some of the easier indirect measurements, of course, is retention. A lot of what we do, like if people like where they work, then they stick around. And so retention usually will climb quite a bit. But other things that do go up is you can typically see like a major difference in performance, sales, productivity, all of that stuff will start to usually have a pretty good climb. So what you just shared is about, is like start about the event and the loss of training program, we do the orientation training and organize the monthly, like a monthly event, right? Yeah, activity to keep the behavior, the new behavior in existence. And also like how to reflect in the operation to tell me more about that, about that area. Like how to reflect in the operation. How to reflect in the operations. Really, when it comes down to how do you build it into your operations, a lot of that honestly comes from that survey. You know, like we ask people, we talk to people, like how are things going? How are, you know, like what's going on? Like as we deep dive into the different aspects of like, you know, what's going well, what's not going well, you know, you find out operationally like what's happening and then you make changes based on that, you know? And like, so one of the big things we learned from the survey was like the number one reason why people like to be at Pizza4P's is because of the connection they have with their colleagues. So one of the things we focused on operationally is let's have more opportunities. Space and opportunity. To connect, right. To connect people. Yeah. Okay, got it. So we started redoing how we do. We have what we call wow parties once a month. So we started a project to revamp our wow parties, right? And so get people like more connecting like that. I'm trying to think. Number one reason why people don't stick around. I guess it would be workload and sort of like the direction. Workload and career path. And so another thing that we started to really like focus on is kind of like how people get started. So, you know, and in that you could say like how the omotenashi is for people that on board with Pizza4P's, right? And so we look at, you know, okay, now we know that people leave because when they show up, you know, they look at Pizza4P's, it's got a great reputation. They think, oh, I'm gonna, you know, go on this career path. And we even have a career path lined up, but it wasn't structured well enough. And so people would get kind of lost in the system. They wouldn't progress very quickly and then they would leave, right? You know, and they would be, they'd have a big fat workload and they wouldn't have anyone helping them move on. And so they would get, you know, a little sad and decide, okay, no, you know what? I'm gonna go somewhere else, right? And so that was what we learned is we need to focus on that sort of like initial step of like how do we onboard people? How do we get people, you know, feeling like they're really connected, you know, as well as like understanding and feeling the culture. Another big thing we learned is that when people get connected to the culture, they stay. So we started to really focus. That's why we built the new orientation and we started to, you know, like figure out how we can get that to people a lot quicker. So, but yeah, a lot of it, it just comes from, you have to learn and ask what's going on for people. And then when you figure out what's going on, then you focus on those things. And it's different for every single company. So you can't just copy, you know, what other companies do. No. But, you know, I mean, other little things that we do, you know, like we start meetings either with some kind of connection. So we might be share a win. It might be like a couple of minutes. Value progress, yeah. Gratitude or a lot of times we start our meetings with like a few minutes of mindfulness, you know, maybe meditation or something like that. Or we just take a moment to like get present, you know, and our leadership meetings, especially, they always start that way. If we didn't listen to our partners, we'd be taking a lot of wild guesses and it may or may not be effective. But when it really comes to how do you get things built into your operations, first you gotta look at like what's going on and then start to address it. And as you address it, you always keep the values in mind, you know, and so you address it from a place of, you know, how are these values fitting into what you're doing, fitting into, you know, like not fitting in, but like guiding. Yeah. So using the values and the behaviors as the guiding. Here's a funny example. I think it's funny, but like, you know, we had a meeting. It was our weekly management meeting and it was like, no one liked it, you know, like everybody hated the weekly management. Even Masuko, he's like, ah, this is the only meeting. I really don't want to go to, you know? And so that's what we started with. We said, we started just ask people like, you know, what do you want to get out of this meeting? And the thing they wanted was to connect more to other teams. And so the change we made is instead of having this hour long meeting where we just talked about numbers for the whole time, we shortened the numbers down to 20 minutes, which spoiler alert, it went down to 10 minutes now because the other part of the meeting became like the favorite part of people's week. They love this part. And it was just each department gets five minutes to do updates. Here's what we're doing. And I'll tell you, at 4Ps, we're doing some really cool stuff. So most of those updates are like, oh, wow, that's cool. Oh, that's neat. That's, you know, so it became more about like, just learning and connecting with the other teams in the company. And now that meeting is like one of the favorite meetings of everybody. Can you share more or like a little bit, like more details about any training or development program that you think that is really effective and impact to the team member, like in practicing the core values or embracing the core values? Basically, we started into a leadership development, like courses, the, I guess the thing that I find when it comes to the values, there's only kind of so much that you can do as far as educating people on and understanding the values. When it comes to like how you really live them, I guess that's the part that we are really trying to focus in on. So like when we do the events, like I said, we do half of it's fun and team building, and the other half is educational. And what we're really wanting to get people to do is experience the values. So like we do have the people skills, and we try to make sure that like when, like that they're very based in the values and that, you know, and that we also kind of point that out within them. We do have specific frameworks that we use and that we're, you know, like Masuko and Sunny are a big fan of S-I-Y. Search inside yourself. Search inside yourself, right. So they're big fans of that. They also use like a lot of skills from Vanto. And so for like leadership and how we run meetings and things like that. But when it comes to the values, it's very, like you have to experience them. And so any educational things that we do, we really try to focus on like, if we're trying to teach authenticity, which if there's anyone out there that has authenticity as their core value, you probably know it's a hard one because it very easily gets mistaken with being blunt. Right? And authenticity isn't about being blunt. It's about being kind of authentic. True self, vulnerable. Yes, very much so. When we like teach about the core values, our big thing is like, we can tell you what it means and we can tell you that it means vulnerability, but until you have a true experience of what that is, then you're not gonna really understand it or really grasp it. And so the big part of like our value training is how do we get people self-generating? And for them to self-generate, they need to understand how to behave, how to create from that. So in our exercises or training that we would do, the explanation part is fairly brief. And then we get into, and that's manifested in a lot of different ways. Less people experiencing that. Exactly. And from what they experience, so they can self-generate or self-discover for themselves. To give an example, like at one of our recent events, what we did is we had people draw, like literally just they have a big, like I think it was a A1, like pretty big Form X board. And you would draw like scenes, scene one, scene two, scene three, scene four, of a situation playing out that would demonstrate the value. And so we were doing authenticity, I think, and compassion was the two. So some teams were on authenticity, some teams were on compassion. The cool thing was is that like some of the examples were really great and really awesome. Some of them were a little more basic, but the cool thing was is when people did it, then of course there were awards and people won and we would go through the ones. But it really gave people an idea of like when you're dealing with authenticity, you know, it goes beyond. It's not just that I'm gonna tell you what I think. You know, I'm gonna be blunt, I'm gonna be 100% honest, whatever. But it's really like you're coming from a place of genuine desire to help and better that other person. You're being vulnerable. And so, you know, it gave us that opportunity for people to understand, you know, the experience of it. Because now they saw like a self-created, you know, by them, their teammates, the other partner's story of what authenticity means to live it. And so in that way, we gave them kind of the experience of it. And so everything that we try to do, we try to make sure that you get that sort of feeling of it and the experience of it. And then you can start to self-generate. And that's the goal. So instead of like saving time to tell them what they need to do, so we create the space, opportunity for them to experience and they can self-discover from that. Okay, that's really awesome. If you have one thing to share with the leader, like the audience who listen our podcast and this show, like one thing, if you wanna share with them about the building of corporate culture, so what's gonna you say? Well, I'm not gonna try and say anything profound or new. I'm just gonna go back to role model leadership. It really is. To give something that helps a lot with that is to be a role model leader, you have to really live it. And in order to really live it, you have to keep it in the front of your mind. And so you have to make your decisions based on that. And so this goes back to my sort of operations and productivity side, but get it in front of you. Like put it on the ceiling above your bed, like put the values or something, like have them on your mirror in the bathroom, whatever, but just make sure that it's part of your daily life until you think about it constantly and it's always on your mind and you know that your decisions are based on that, get it in front of you. Yeah, so being a role model here is that you keep the value of the behavior in existence in every decision that you make. Because I think the team member, they will look at the leader's behavior and the culture change from there. Yeah, and leaders are very busy people. And so it's easy to just get lost in the operations. That's why I say have it somewhere and remind yourself constantly, until it's just in your blood. Yeah, okay, that's great. Awesome. Okay, thank you. So that is a sharing from Joe Black about building up the corporate culture at Peace or For Peace. And once again, a big thanks to UpChain, the leading brand in workspace solution in Vietnam for making this episode of People Matter possible. Please support us by subscribing the Success Channel and following us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts to listen to the conversation anywhere and anytime. Thank you so much for watching. Thank you.