People Matter EP06 | Chuyển mình thay đổi để dẫn dắt 5000 nhân sự | Tường Vân - Mondelez Kinh Đô

The HR director must have the desire to conquer. Only by recruiting people like that can we go through the change. Your board of directors must be united. How can everyone on the same boat look in the same direction? How can we go to our future? When a person is asked to do something else, there is always a discomfort to deal with the emotional problem. It is important to be a line manager. Before the change, each CEO or HR director must be ready for the story to change. The story of change must be interesting to lead to the change of their behavior. A new content from Viet Success discusses the important topics of HR. Surrounding the closely related aspects of effective business operation with senior experts and HR directors from leading companies in Vietnam. People Matter, the first season. The context of important topics in the field of HR. With the support of the strategic partner Uptrend, solving the first-class work efficiency space in Vietnam. I am Minh Giang, the co-founder of the Newin training company and the host of this program. Today, I am very honored to be invited here by a special guest. Ms. Nguyen is the vice president of HR at Mondelay Kindle Vietnam. She has played a key role in leading the change and innovation between these two companies during the acquisition and sales process between Mondelay and Kindle. That is Ms. Tuong Van. Hello, Ms. Hello, hello. Those who work in HR have heard of Ms. Tuong Van. If possible, Ms. Tuong Van, can you briefly share about your journey in this field? Okay, my journey is quite simple. I started this job when Uptrend and Unilever brought me to HR. It was like a career choice for me. Because I studied at the University of Economics, but then I chose to work in HR. I started when I just graduated from Unilever. Because I thought I wouldn't be able to learn how to run a business, I wanted to improve my self-confidence. That's why I joined a law school in Australia. Then I came back to Vietnam. When I came back to Vietnam, I joined L'Oreal. It was the first time I played the role of leading HR for L'Oreal in Vietnam. After working for L'Oreal for 5 years, one fine day, a company contacted me. They invited me to cooperate and help them to buy and sell a Vietnamese company. That was the fate that brought me to Mondelēz. I heard that Ms. Van's HR journey is closely related to the leadership and change of the organization, right? Because when you work at L'Oreal in Vietnam, it's a journey of change for a company from a representative office to a big company. And for Mondelēz and Kindle, it's also a journey of change and innovation between an international corporation and a Vietnamese business. It's also an opportunity for me to be a leader of change and innovation. What is essential for a HR director to help me succeed in the transformation and change of the organization? The most important thing is do you have the passion to go through that path? Because if you choose to join a stable company, it's easy. But if you choose to join a company that is facing a challenge, and you want to conquer that challenge, I think that's how you go through the transformation and change. And if you don't have that desire, that passion, it will be difficult to go along with the dream of a business that wants to change itself and innovate itself. So what you've just shared is simple, but I think it's crucial. For a HR director, you have a choice to go along with a company that is stable, optimal, and operational. But you have a passion for challenges and a passion for new tasks so you can change and innovate. For me, that's an element of attitude, of motivation. But it's not about the skills that I think a HR director needs to have to be able to execute, to coordinate, to lead, to play the role of an advisor or CEO or founder to the best of their ability. I think when it comes to skills, when HR directors want to go through a change or a transformation, I think the first thing they need to have is the ability to assess the impact of that change on their organization. When it comes to transformation, when it comes to HR, it's about changing a person's behavior. In the past, I did this, now I do it differently. That's called change. If you have a new system, or a new culture, in the end, it's a change in the behavior of the organization. If the organization wants to change, I think the HR director needs to have the ability to advise the director on how to lead the organization to go through a change. That means they need to know how to advise the entire organization to be ready to go through that change. They need to know how to help the organization to be ready for the change. Or how to help the HR directors to be ready to change their employees. Because when you change, you're not alone. Another important skill that you need to have when it comes to transformation is that when an organization goes through a change, it will always have feelings. If it's a positive or a negative change, we don't talk about it. But even if it's a positive change, when a person is asked to do something else, there will always be discomfort. I'm doing this, what else do I have to change? You don't have to change. Because when you change, you always have to learn something new and do something different. So the third skill that I think is quite important is the ability to... To be sensitive to feelings. To be able to manage feelings in a change. You've been through a change. So I'm sure that these skills will be very useful and practical. I want to hear more about the practical story in Mondeleine Kindle. When you were the HR director, what did you do? How did you consult about culture and how did you apply it in terms of being sensitive to feelings? With Mondeleine Kindle, can you tell us about that story? Can the audience hear it? For that project, we initially set a 5-year schedule. My company allowed me to have a 5-year schedule to completely change. We had a 20-year history with more than 5,000 employees. They were very familiar with the old equipment. After signing the purchase agreement, they went to the next step, which was to integrate it. The story is that Mondeleine also has a team of experts to work with us and create a change process for all departments. Mondeleine had to change, not just Kindle, right? That's right. This story is a bit different. There are two companies, but it's actually a combination of Kindle and Global, which was only a representative office at the time. So the scale was not large. The calculation is more about upgrading a Vietnamese company to an international company. Maybe that's an advantage because the complexity of the two sides is also reduced because there are not too many people who have to integrate. But the difficulty is that Mondeleine was small at the time, so it's like leading a company that we haven't known for 20 years. It's like that. Because the company owner was like delivering the goods for us, so we went in to take over. The legal department and the marketing department are also new people. So we don't have a background to lead, but a completely new team. Like I said to Giang, there is always a need for a change. It takes a lot of time to get to know each other. Because you have to know how the organization operates. It takes a lot of time to identify the differences between the two sides. On a personal level, you have to identify whether the organization is suitable for the new organization or not. For example, what is the current capacity and what will it be like in the future. From there, we have to plan and work together to go through the changes. Because it's the case of all departments, everyone has to change. The system has to change, the process has to change, and the leadership has to change. So all departments have to move towards the present and the future. On a personal level, that journey will take us to a few big directions. The first direction is leadership. Leadership is a big direction that we need to pay attention to. The second is the organization structure and the third is culture. People often say that culture eats meat. The strategy. It's like a breakfast. So the next is culture. And finally, it's the capacity. How long will it take to reach the future that we are waiting for? It's like a job to upgrade a Vietnamese company. So how long will it take and what capacity do we need for our organization to become an international company? So we can declare that this is an international company. So that journey, as a HR manager, Ms. Tuong Van has shared that we focus on 4 factors. The first is leadership. Leadership leads to change. We need to change the structure of the organization to serve the change. The third is culture. The fourth is the organization's ability. What abilities do we need to help us achieve? Your board of directors must be united. How can everyone on the same boat look in the same direction as we go to our future? At least one of the first two years, we have to do it all the time. As HR managers, we have to equip our line managers to do that job. Which one is the most difficult? Each one has its own difficulty. It's extremely difficult. It's difficult here. When we established the board of directors, half of them were Kendo brothers and half of them were athletes. Before that, they were competitors. Now they have to sit together. They can't even look at each other. Now they have to sit together. The trust is zero. It's very difficult. This is a very difficult problem. They have to take care of each other. On the same boat, everyone has their own direction, how can we go to our future? So the first thing is, the difficulty is how to build a consensus, yes, that word is good, that is, a consensus to lead the others. That's the first thing you have to deal with. How did you deal with that? How can we be like brothers in a house, how can we talk and guide each other? It also takes a lot of time, effort, and heart for our leadership. I remember back then, we did a lot of activities to unite, to trust each other. In general, at first, I would focus on my board of directors, about more than ten people. Next, I would focus on my top 100 people, and then I would expand. At least one in two years, I had to do that continuously. It's like love, you can't chase people away for two or three days, unless you're in love. If you want to express love and trust, it takes a lot of time, because you have to prove it, no one believes you right from the start. And then you have to be passionate all the time. Yes, you have to be passionate all the time. In those two years, it took us a lot of time to do a lot of shows, a lot of activities to spread the word, so that everyone has the same perspective, to share, to create opportunities for everyone to share, both personal perspectives and business perspectives, so that there is a strong bond. And now, I understand why a show, like you said, a mother company, takes almost five years. It sounds long, but now I look back, I see that it's very... To go consistently and confidently, as you said, it takes time, about one to two years, to focus on the top 100 people, so that everyone is on the same page. Yes. Yes, and there are other problems, there are other factors. Yes, and there are other difficulties, for example, about culture. It's also a challenge, because I imagine that two families living next to each other, living in the same neighborhood, but from here to there, I can see the difference, right? The way they treat each other is different, the way they make decisions is different, and the way they work together, the way they work together is very different. It's easy to misunderstand at first. Let's take an example. On one side, it's family culture. You take care of me, no matter what, I still love you. Right? So, the family culture, they are very close and love each other. On the other side, it's a very competitive culture, that is, focus on ability. Only results. Yes, whether you can do it or not, it's two different things. Because we're not saying that when they step in, we don't say which culture is right, which culture is wrong. But now, how do we connect those two cultures together? Because a person, a family culture, they will look at the other culture as very inhuman, very difficult, very harsh, very difficult, without human love. When they look at it, they say it's very not focused, not effective. They only focus on relationships. Yes, why love each other? Now we need to focus on the ability, the result. In my opinion, there is nothing bad and nothing excellent. So, at that time, in my change strategy, I came up with a strategy called What is the best thing for both of us? Yes, the best thing for both of us. We have to choose. Yes, the best thing for both of us. And we repeat that strategy. What for? To make the Kendo brothers feel that they don't want to give up everything. We have our strengths. Khoi's pride is that we have our strengths. The modelist also understands that we also need to respect the good points of this side. That's it. There are many differences in culture that we have to analyze and we have to see how we will implement. And if we want to implement, we have to do a lot of activities, such as training, inviting people to talk, a lot of media, inviting leaders or guests, sharing lessons, a lot of things to connect the differences and help people change their minds and accept a new mindset. The specific journey that you lead to prevent those two cultures from being separated from each other. Even though I know it's the best of both worlds, but what exactly do we need to do? I think that people out there or the audience listening to this podcast may not be going to buy a company, but they may be living in a culture like you said, like a family. But now they have to add to the culture to focus on results and abilities. I really want to hear your story. How did you change the culture? I think changing the culture takes a lot of time. The first thing is we have to think. We tell a lot of stories. For example, the culture of competition We talk a lot about growth and family culture. We don't say we won't use family culture anymore, but what is the beauty of family culture? It's caring. We keep that in mind by teaching life managers to love their employees. But now if we say we love our employees and we focus on results, loving doesn't mean you have to worry about your birthday, or your family, or you have to like you said, you have to let go of a lot of things, or you have to accept shortcomings or limitations in terms of ability. That element of caring becomes an element of a good life manager. A good life manager is like this. You know how to take care of your employees. To help your employees grow professionally, you twist the culture of family into caring. There's a connection there. That means you will care and take care of your employees' career and future. I think the connection, the message has changed a little bit, but we still keep the idea and the essence of the culture of caring from the past. Now that we've set up a curriculum for life managers, I remember many years ago, life managers had to be trained to make sure they were responsible, caring, and developed employees. Life managers had to learn how to develop their employees, how to make them better. That's how caring was expressed. Or how to connect with a culture that cares about the results and capabilities of the model. We introduced growth mindset. Growth mindset means I believe I can do it. I believe I can do it. It's not about doing this or that. The first thing is to introduce growth mindset so that everyone has the potential to develop. I feel confident in myself. From there, they will learn and focus on the results. There are many other things that I can't talk about in this whole process. There are a few things that we need to design. When we design, let's just say, to come up with a message or do something to convey that message, it takes a long time to discuss, to agree, to disagree, and so on. It takes a long time to design the message and the journey. You mentioned four elements. I'm curious if you can share more about one of the skills that a HR director needs to have is to be able to apply, understand, and empathize with people's feelings. I want to ask you during the journey of change and innovation, what is the reaction and opposition to people's feelings? What can a HR director do in this situation? Like you, during the Mondeley-Kindle era, what can you do to reduce the feelings and the uncomfortable reaction so that people can accept it? Usually, they feel that they don't like this change or they don't like the old way. The reaction comes from this. First, they don't understand why they have to change. When they don't understand, they don't want to change. When they don't understand the benefits, they don't want to change. That leads to second, sometimes they understand, but I still don't like it. I understand, but I don't like it. Yes, because I'm used to it. To deal with the issue of emotions, we pay a lot of attention to the line manager. When you talk about emotional management, HR is not the person who manages emotions. We have to equip our line managers to do that. A line manager works directly with the staff. They understand emotions, but we are outside. We are in the next room. We can't do anything in a room of 5,000 people. So what do we do? We equip our line managers. We have to help our line managers understand the emotions when a change happens and equip them to work with their staff. They feel comfortable when they overcome a change and work with their staff. So in terms of emotional management, we do a lot of training on emotional psychology and emotional management for our line managers so that they can support their staff directly. Because they are the ones who understand the difficulties of the job. They understand why the job should change. Secondly, we talk about the benefits of change. We do a lot of media about our future and your future. If a Vietnamese company goes international, what are the opportunities? There are a lot of opportunities that are not in the boundaries of Vietnam. And if you look at the companies that have a lot of branches worldwide, you have a lot of opportunities that are not limited to Vietnam. For example, if you are an entrepreneur, you have a lot of opportunities to grow anywhere. You have a lot of new skills. So what is the benefit for people? We will inspire people with a beautiful dream for the company and for themselves. And when people see that there is a benefit for people, they will feel that it is really good for me. Why don't I change? Why don't I accept it? We do a lot of internal media to let people see what a new direction is, what our new future is, how we get there, and how it will be good for you. There are a lot of people who have extraordinary efforts. After 3-5 years, I have seen that a lot of people have changed in a very different way. They have changed a lot. They have transformed themselves. They have become a different level. And I think that this is a great opportunity for people to really believe in the future that they have seen. And they believe right from the start that this is our benefit that I will have if I change and transform. In a change, if you want to succeed, you have to think for others. If you just want to benefit yourself, sorry, you can succeed right away. Before a change, a CEO or HR director needs to be ready for a story to change. In the case of Monelay and Kindle, because Kindle has a chance to see a new future, a new dream that is more beautiful. So some people may believe that they have changed. But in the current situation, the economy is now economically difficult, everything is shut down. And in this situation, we also have to change. But in this situation, why do I have to change? I don't know if the future is attractive enough for people to believe in. Because people still see the story of daily wages and everything. If you are a HR director and you are now facing a change in a company, what do you think you will do? Finally, I have to ask why we have to change, right? Do you have to change a company because you want it to be better? If it's worse, why change? So the story is any business, when you want to change, of course you have a story that is better. So how do you tell that story? The reason why it's good for the company is that everyone can see it. Or the company can easily see the good future for the company. But on the other hand, we also have to look at our employees. So what's good for them? They will change, of course. Everyone calls it what's in it for me. At the end of the day, what benefit do I get? So your story must have a connection. This is good for the company. And this is good for the employees. It's not a big deal if the employees don't change. But it's a bit difficult because in our story, we often forget to say that. Sometimes we say this is the company's story. Sometimes we say this is the company's story. Either we forget or we intentionally forget. So in a change, we have to think about the role of our employees. What's good for me? What's good for you? I often say that when people change their behavior, there are always two parts. The first part is the rational part. The second part is the emotional part. Right? So we have to have stories to make our employees first of all, they can assess that change is beneficial. But on the other hand, they also like that change. So the communication in a change, there's something that I think if I do it, I'll hit hard on that. The change story has to be interesting. We have to design a story that's interesting enough to give people a rational side. Maybe the rational side will say, I don't know if it's okay. I can't assess the situation. But the emotional part is exciting. Very exciting. So maybe they'll change. I want to focus a lot on inspiring, building a story that helps people feel broken. Then it's easier to assess their behavior change. Yes. And I have an assessment that most of the changes and innovations are failed because the leadership can't lead. As Ms. Van said, among the four elements that we need to hit hard are leadership, cultural organization, and organizational ability. I want to go deeper into organizational ability. What ability do you think we need to focus on to ensure this change is successful? When I say ability, it includes two things. The first is professional ability. We go from A to B, right? In the past, we did A this way. We can't go to B if we keep doing this. Right? That means you'll get the same result if you do it the same way. So you have to change the way you do it. The first is professional ability. How do you get that distance? And how do you develop your ability for your employees? Sometimes, you want to change, but you don't know what that ability is called. Or you can't analyze the change and ask for more skills. So in terms of ability, you have to determine what skills are necessary. For example, let's say I'm a retailer. I don't do e-commerce. Right? I don't do e-commerce. Do my employees have professional ability for e-commerce? Do my employees know how to do online marketing? That's the change, the professional ability. The second ability is the ability to manage change. Like I said to Giang, the ability to adapt, the ability to manage the feelings of change. Those are called adaptability. Adaptability. So there are those two abilities that you can... Adaptability and professional ability. You have to analyze those two abilities and you need a process to adapt those two abilities for your employees so they're ready to change. I'm curious about the workload that Ms. Van shared earlier. It's a lot. Is there anything that you and your team need to do internally and do you need external support and advice? In terms of personal story, we have a team of advisors from my mom's company. Because for this project, Van herself, we have to... In terms of professionality, we have to take care of the change. We also have to take care of the change for all the departments. So it's quite complicated. It's hard to do it alone. The second thing is like you shared earlier, when we step in, we have 5,000 employees. So in my office, I have about 100-200 employees. So we're only in the Monolith Squad. At that time, there were more than 100 people from Kendo. So how can we do it alone? Of course, we have to have external support, some advisors, and we also have the opportunity to hire some more people to add the skills that are not ready. So we can upgrade on the professional side and guide the change. Right in your office and for the organization? Yes. Like you said, we have to take care of our office, the hiring process, the salary, the staff development. Our office has to change. Then we have to take care of the culture, the company, and the next room. Those are the two big changes that we need to guide. So you have both internal and external resources? Yes. Monolith is not easy to invest in. So first, experts from all over the country fly in to help us. Each country sends out a few people. In general, we choose the best experts. For example, sales experts send one or two people. Operations experts send one or two people. Second, we also have an international consulting team to support and guide us. At that time, we didn't have to work for 5 years. Congratulations. Luckily, after 3 years, we have completed the mission. We can say that after 3 years, we are an international company compared to other companies around the world. For example, our colleagues in Asia or compared to international standards, even the work process, culture, and system, they are all integrated. In your experience, when you change to a new job, there are many businesses that want it to be fast, even 3-6 months to change. Are you willing to save at least 3 years to build a company in 100 years? In general, it depends on the change and the scale. But as Giang said, if it's too hot, it may not be sure. It depends on our expectations. To be honest, there are many businesses that really want to be guided to change and do new things. However, they are not ready to make difficult decisions. One of the difficult decisions is how to deal with or make decisions with people who have been following you for a long time. But now, they are not ready to change the company. For Giang, those are difficult decisions. When you worked at Mondele and Kindle, did you face such difficult decisions? When I see people who I think may not have enough time, we approach them in a fair way. For example, even if a business wants to change, it has to come from both sides. When we think about changing human ability, we have to be sincere that we want people to develop. We don't know who is suitable and who is not. First of all, we have to give people an opportunity to invest in them for their development and success. Secondly, we have to look forward to change. This is the future. I just want to say that this is the future and the ability to go to the future. If you can do it, this beautiful future for the company and you is like this. When people see your determination, your sincerity, and their expectations, they will decide whether they want it or not. Then they will decide. We will be better than having the decisions that I call sacrifice. Some companies will say that it will take time or it will be slow. Or this organization can't wait. Yes, this organization can't wait. But you have to think again. Do you think for yourself? Do you think for others? You have to think for other people. If you only want to benefit yourself, sorry, you can be successful right away. But do you consider your reputation? Do you consider the enemies that you will create? So in a change, if we talk about people, and if we have to say that there are sacrifices on the part of people, I always want to have a way to approach people. I always have to give people a chance. And I believe that everyone wants a chance. The employees who see the picture and their expectations as well as their sincerity, they will decide. There are many cases, and I do the same in my work. The investment is very clear and the expectation is very clear. When people see the expectation and they see the investment, they will decide if they want to change or break up. It's slow but fast and healthy. And back to what you said, you are always the one who gives the opportunity to others. And at the end of the day, they will be the one to choose. You don't have to force them to do things like you said, sacrifices. Yes. Thank you so much. If you have something to say to HR directors or CEOs who are waiting for a change and a new organization, what can they do next week after this podcast? For a change, each CEO or HR director needs to be ready for a story to change. They need to prepare an inspiring story because it's the first step to lead a change. Secondly, they need to be ready to stand in the shoes of others, to stand in the position of an employee. How much will they accept and think about their employees? Because I think everyone wants a change that benefits them all. But I think the success of change needs to have two sides. The first is the story of why. And the story of why is very clearly connected with the picture of the future that benefits the organization but also the employees. And the second is the willingness to make decisions or make investments to accept and lead this change. Maybe it's the investment in time, in waiting for people to give them a chance to develop. Thank you very much, Ms. Tuyet Van. Today you brought us practical stories and I believe that through your sharing, the audience can understand and be prepared for the journey of change and innovation of an organization. Ladies and gentlemen, once again, I would like to thank Uptrend's strategic partnership, a brand for office rental and working space, Toi U, headquartered in Vietnam. If you like the content of Viet Success as well as the People Matter series, please follow us on YouTube and listen to our podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or Google Podcasts to continue listening to practical stories from actors and guests, the current HR directors in the market. Once again, thank you very much. Goodbye and see you again. Uptrend