Spirituality or Science? The Controversial Truth About Healing Trauma | Interview | Episode 123

Bookaholics, today I will be talking to Khadijah Quadri, who has written a spiritual and multicultural guide for psychotherapists and healers. The book is called Indigen, Journeys of a Wounded Healer. Khadijah, welcome to the Bookaholic podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yes, glad to have you here. And I'm going to try to do your book and your journey as much justice as I possibly can. So let's go ahead and dive right into it, because this is a big idea. This is a concept that in some ways you've heard of it, because say if you're a religious person, to some degree, you know some of these things. And if you've gone to therapy, some of these things, but these things have all been merged together. And so that's what might make it somewhat of a you are a therapist, correct? Yes. Yes. And so what was your education like? I have a bachelor's degree in business finance from University of Lagos in Nigeria, where I was born. And then coming to the United States, which I share in my book, by marriage, and became a therapist through education, completing a mental health counseling degree, working as a psychotherapist, both in employment with the government, and then also going out and in private practice for myself. And I've been doing that for the last 20 years. Okay, wonderful, wonderful. Now, how did you morph into being a spiritual psychotherapist? And also within that, what is spiritual psychotherapy? I think that I write about my childhood, because it all began there. As a child going through a lot of childhood abuse, physical, mental, sexual abuse, and also having to be a very intuitive, clairvoyant, clairaudient child, a sensitive child. The questions of why people abuse other people, why people are the way they are, and what becomes of people who have not had an equal footing in the start of their life. And so asking those questions as a child, asking questions about narcissism, even though then I didn't know what that word was, and how that is connected to the person's spiritual complexes, their soul complexes, and their mental complexes, I could see it as a child, because of my clairvoyance abilities. And so when I came to the United States, I was a family service counselor working for DCF, Department of Child and Family Services in Florida. I began asking those questions too, when I was working with children who were born exposed to drugs and alcohol. And so I could also see the mental and spiritual complexes of those children. So naturally for me, when I became a mental health therapist, I was seeing the spiritual and mental complexes and how they were weaving together within the individual. And I began to ask questions about how can I create approaches, theories, ideas that can help people on that level, on the spiritual and mental level, because I saw that they're not separate and apart from each other. They're actually the same. But what happens is that when people are religious, and sometimes I do see it, it's a concept to them. It's an intellectual concept. But what is going on inside them is totally different. What they're feeling, what they're thinking, and their energy is totally different from what they believe. And I also wanted to work with diverse groups of people, because to me, once you start going into the inner self, the inner complexes, you start to realize that the labels fall off. At the same time, how do I work with a Christian who's very intellectually in their Bible? How can I weave that? Because many people who are religious don't believe in mental health. Right. And then, yes, and then those who seek mental health, or the mental health therapies themselves, are trained to keep religion and spirituality out of the system, not unless the therapist is actually a trained pastoral counselor. The only loophole they give psychotherapists is multiculturalism, which is being able to adapt and mold therapy to a person's cultural and religious background. What I then started to do, because I love to learn, I loved by virtue of my background, the idea of integration came to me. How do you integrate ideas? How do you integrate philosophies? And how does the different religions actually point to the mental and spiritual internal processes of a person? And how can I support others in the development of those internal processes? And I came into spiritual psychotherapy, which has been around. Spiritual psychotherapy is not new. There is a lot of talk about the theories, various theories, Jungian Dreamworks, or other multicultural rational theories. But for me, it was, I wanted to be able to research this go further into how can I quantify? How can I research spiritualism in psychotherapy? How can I track the progress of my clients, utilizing certain modalities, which I talk about in my book? So what I try to do here is create a niche. But I also I'm saying to my readers, this is not just about studying it. This is about becoming it. This is about yourself, going inside yourself, and understanding what you are and how you are developing internally, because without that, you cannot help or guide somebody else in their own journey. And I guess I hope I answered your question about what is spiritual psychotherapy. It is the art of going within yourself. Yes. And becoming and engaging your internal life, your internal soul, and understanding that your internal processes is just as important, if not more important than the outer processes. And yes, for people to begin to read mental health, which is connected to consciousness, which is connected to emotions and life force. They're all connected. And bringing it all together in such a fine dance. It's a huge challenge for me. Yes, that's what I meant about this as a big idea. Maybe I'm not framing that correctly. But because people are so used to therapy in one direction, and spirituality in another direction, all that what you just described perfectly, it's hard to grasp them coming together. So I hope and even if we repeat a little bit in this interview, maybe that's needed so that people can actually get this idea. Now, your book is called Indigen. That's the main word there. And so why did you name your book Indigen? Is there a meaning behind that word? Why did you use that to start off the title of your book? The name came to me while I was shopping at the grocery store. Okay. And I listened to my inner self a lot. But there's a whole world inside me. But I named the book Indigen because I want, I'm referring to anyone who is original to this planet. Okay, yes. Anyone who indigenous people just use the preface of the word is within say indigenous. Yes. Okay, so indigenous to mean the original human, the original self, the real, the real, the who really is an indigent of this planet, because anyone is an indigent of this planet is a cooperative, a loving, a truthful, a grounded individual, a person who respects nature, a person who understands that Earth is our nest created by God, the universe, the most high, a person who is open minded and understands that open mindedness is the development of the internal soul. So I wanted to name the book indigent because of the fact that indigenous people around the world, whether it's Africa, Asia, South America, and including the United States, are their spiritual processes is not far from Western Christian or other religions, they're actually all saying the same thing, if you take the time to study their message, and you will see that they are all complimentary to one another. And that without really studying the beliefs and religious practices of the indigenous people, and the ancestors, it will be difficult to pick up from just anywhere, and feel that you understand what the purpose of humanity on this planet. I named it indigent as a call to all natives of this planet. Yes, yes, that is beautifully spoken. And I do love the term that you just used, the Earth is our nest. And that brings to me to my thoughts a whole different subject matter, but we don't have time to address that on this interview. But I love that the Earth is our nest. I like that a lot. Now I'm going to read an excerpt out of your book. And this is at the very beginning. And this is just how it's within your introduction. And this is how profound this book really is. Bear with me listeners as I read this excerpt. So you have in here, in the introduction, I attended mental health programs with the desire to find out how I can make meaning of my traumas, but quickly found several challenges with the traditional approaches for treating childhood traumas. The first issue was that as with all other professions in the United States, practically all theories and healing techniques were created by white men. And I could not reconcile any of their techniques with my spiritual and cultural beliefs. The other issue I found was that except for Christian counseling, spirituality was completely avoided because there were no evidence-based theories for students to learn from. Anything that bordered on the supernatural could easily be attributed to psychosis, schizophrenia, or disassociation. I knew that I did not fit any of these diagnoses because I also happened to be reflective and logical. I had the ability to use both sides of my brain hemisphere, whereas most people leaned heavily towards one or the other. Now I found that very profound and very clearly stated as part of your logicalness. And that's why, and this is like going back to substantiate what you said earlier, and you were telling us about the definition of spiritual psychotherapy, and to clarify even further how people have thought about religious people don't typically believe in therapy and all of these types of things. But the fact that traditional therapy does not come from the place that you come from. So I'm going a little off script here. How do we clarify that? How do we bridge that gap? You can't be the only person out here trying to bridge that gap because then too, you go to a therapy session and it may not be still the right thing for you. That sounds very frustrating that you may go to a council and it's based on the approaches that were written by white men and it just may not still do anything for you. What can we do about that? And I know you're doing your attempt, but are people becoming more aware of spiritual psychotherapy? Is there more being done to bring that to the fore with therapy? No, it is not. Even to today, students of mental health, psychiatry or psychology are still studying. They're still learning the things that I learned back in 2000. Right. And before that for other people and before that, it's the same thing. Yes. So it hasn't changed at all. I think that more and more therapies are realizing that what they have learned and the tools that they have been given is really not sufficient at all. They are aware of that. And so they decided to combat that with more psychotropic medications and depression and anxiety meds and things like that. Unfortunately, these medications have some very disturbing and dire side effects, not only in the short run, but in the long run. And it does absolutely nothing to bring about healing and the development of internal person. How do we reconcile that? That's what I'm trying to do. But in order to really fully bring any justice to spiritual psychotherapy, I am asking the therapist or the healer to first do their internal work. To first figure out what they are inside themselves, because it is through their own journey they will understand other people's internal processes and where their struggles are and how to pinpoint the root causes of their issues. Because all physical health issues actually started from the emotional and the mental and the energy body. The physical body is like the bark of a tree. A tree could have had fungus inside it and you will not know until you start seeing it on the outside of the tree. And the human being is that way. Before we get healed, something has been going on inside for a while, whether it's ancestral or for those who believe in past lives. Literally all indigenous cultures believe in past lives except for Christianity. So they do believe that the soul recycles, the soul comes back, the soul will continue to cycle the earth until it has achieved the Christ mind or the enlightenment. And it is qualified to go to the eternal light realms or the heaven, whatever we want to call it depending on the religion. So hopefully to answer your question, how do we reconcile that? It is a fine dance. It is a dance of integrating philosophies, ideas, not dismissing any one person, anyone, but really looking into it because you're going to find out that they're all connected and they're not really saying anything apart from one another. But I also am calling, it is also a call to not forget the origins, our origins, the original language. For instance, I have a chapter on that where all the cultures and now everybody's speaking English, whereas English is possibly the most vibrationally low language to speak. So if you explore indigenous cultures, which I pray that we continue to preserve native languages, there is a difference in them. There is a resonance in them. There is a vowel accentuating the vowel sounds like and those that they don't necessarily mean anything other than the sound, the resonance, and the frequency, which many indigenous people sing and practice to stay alive because it is of the development, the internal developmental process of a human soul, of a human being. And so language, sound, words, movement, all of those natural things must be preserved. Now that we're moving into AI and technology, I'm not opposed to it, but what I've seen is that it must complement, not become the go-to, but that complements human development. There is so much to reconciling spirituality and mental health. In Christianity, they talk about love and forgiveness. There is an internal process to it. Forgiveness is an internal process. Love is an internal process, not external. And I really appreciate the possibility of merging the two because when we go to church, we are taught at and we're told what to do, but we're not told how to do it. Exactly, exactly. There was a lot in what you said there. And so here's even more that I'm going to read the second excerpt out of your book. And this is also part of the introduction. This is not even in the chapters. This is part of the introduction. And you say, I am an angel sent by God and there are millions like me incarnated on the planet upon the commission set by God. Our true nature as angels is a birthright and a natural developmental process. Just as caterpillars turn into butterflies and eggs become birds, humans become angels. Our mindset is one of true service and a joy for doing what is good for the sake of good. We cut across race, gender, ethnicity, geographical locations, countries of origin, age, and more. We are in the healing professions from doctors, psychotherapists, healers, religious leaders, teachers, accountants, parents, children, friends, classmates, caregivers, and others. We took on the labor of love to incarnate on this planet to assist in the healing and restoration of collective human soul with a capital S and to move it along its natural God-given developmental process. And taking this journey upon the request from the universe for volunteers, we understood we temporarily give up our identity to be in a human body and to undertake a journey towards igniting collective healing. Now, if that's not big, I don't know what is. So, let's take this step by step to ask a very elementary question. You said you described who these angels may be as far as professions. So, I noticed, say for an example, you didn't mention construction, let's just say. So, there would not be anybody from that type of realm to be an angel? Would it only have to be people who show that they are on the fringes of being some type of healer in the aspect of our society? No, absolutely not. I wish I could have added more professions to that page. That would be thousands of professions. What I'm trying to say is that there is, it's not, and it's any and every profession. It's even a homeless person on a bridge. Anyone, what our role is just an external title. It is about what we are inside and what we are inside our advanced angelic soul. And so, we take on the incarnation to, because our vibration, because of our vibration and because we are born aware and we understand what we are early on, we take on our different positions because we know that we will be taking on different positions and we embrace those positions. We're not trying to be like anyone else. We are following our inner guidance and where we are positioning ourselves in the spaces to help to awaken other souls. So, it is everybody. It is everybody. Okay. So, I just wanted to make sure that we all could fit into that role. Now, so with that said, and I love that about that to see that because a lot of times people don't think about that and religiously, that's not until we die that we become angels. You already have us as angels here right now that's doing this developmental work. Am I saying that correctly? Correct. Yes. And so, that's already a huge difference religious wise that a lot of people think they're here striving to go to heaven, but whereas we have either A, been already in heaven and is living another life to get to our true self, but we're already angels. And the people do say we're just spirits here or we talk about the Holy Ghost inside of you. So, we're already saying that, but what gets so really over that is that you die and then you become an angel. So, I think a lot of people need to know and clarify that and merge the two because people are so striving, but you're already striving. You're already a soul being. You already are. Yes. Even the Bible said that heaven is inside you. The kingdom of God is inside you. So, the dimension that is the heavens is already inside you. The faith of God is already inside you and you are already a soul that is sent here or there are some things to work on. And so, it is a matter of engaging that inner life, that inner experience, that inner dimension to understand who you are, to know thyself, master yourself, and align with your God-giving, universe-giving mission. Exactly. Now, let me go to this still with this same paragraph. So, we understood we would temporarily give up our identity to be in a human body. That speaks to me that journey is just like Jesus. Jesus got the assignment from God the Father to give up his identity to become human and to come here and undertake to give up his identity and take on the form of a human body in order to assist us towards this journey of collective healing. So, that to me is mixed up in there also that a lot of people don't think about it, but it seems as I'm understanding that statement, we're still taking the journey of Jesus. Yes. He did say everything he's done, we're doing and we are capable of doing more. And unfortunately, some of the religious messages that no one else is capable of it, and there's only one, the God I know is beyond the comprehension, beyond consent, multiple people. And I do feel that there are millions and there's multiple people who are incarnated on this planet now, who have incarnated in the past, will continue to incarnate, who are coming in to support the development of humanity. Unfortunately, we're not recognized. People only recognize external materials show of grandiole. And so, many of us are still to today prosecuted in many various ways, modern style, whether it's incarceration, denial of opportunities, discrimination, and this costs us rates. So, it is not a group of people. I do feel that when you get past external appearances, whether your shell is brown, black, or whatever, when you get past it, you start to realize that this is all about that which possesses the light of God and that which is devoid of the light of God. Exactly, exactly. Now, another elementary type question, a person who comes to our earth, to our universe, and they choose, they end up being in jail, let's say, and that they truly are justifiably in jail because they have committed some type of crime. And their life has been troubled, let's say, since day one, and they were just really destined to end up in jail because they were going to live a crime-ridden life. Is that person also an angel? Yes, of course. So, when you think about the life of Jesus, he was considered a criminal. He was accused of blasphemy. He was humiliated and shamed, stripped naked, flogged, and naked as he was nailed to the cross. When you think about the number of people who have gone through such things as well, we do not take away the fact that even though he was falsely accused, or whether he did it or not, as in he confronted the status quo, he was considered a criminal. In this world we live in, many people feel justified in pointing fingers at other people and saying that they're criminals, when in reality that person could actually be an angel. Now, and in fact, I had one experience, I didn't write about it in my book, where a homeless man walked into my office one day, and he said he had an appointment, and clearly he didn't have an appointment, but then I heard my guidance system say, you want to listen to him. He turned out to be an angel. He had been on drugs, he looked like he had been, he clearly looked like he had been on drugs, but then the Holy Spirit began to speak through him. Wow. And we had a whole conversation, and it was the most incredible one-hour session that I had with this homeless man. So, that and many other lessons have taught me to never judge a book by the cover. And there's, we make so many assumptions. We think that when somebody looks rich and nice and pious, and when Jesus talks about the Pharisees, the ones that act like they are outside when they're inside, is empty. We know these things, but we actually don't act on these things, or act on the knowing that you just don't know. When I encountered Jesus, and I didn't put it in my book, because this was after I wrote the book, he did not look anything like the way he's depicted. The Eurocentric look. The Eurocentric, the perfect skin, the perfect outfit. He did not look anything like that. I knew it was him because I could tell in his eyes that it was him. He didn't look it. He didn't have the skin color that he's depicted. He didn't have the... So, we have been led to believe a lot of things. So, when we are obsessed with judging the book by the cover, then we really don't know who's who. Correct. You're 100% correct. Now, what if I'm a person who had no belief system at all? That I wasn't in any ways remotely familiar with the Quran, the Bible, Buddhist practices, and had no sense of a belief system at all, and maybe I define myself as agnostic or atheist. How would you persuade that person, who may be facing a multitude of issues, traumas and issues, mental health issues, how would you convince that person to try spiritual psychotherapy? I will be honest with you in saying that, yes, they are very challenging for me, because I have to, in order to heal, in order to get better, you have to have a hope or a faith or a forward movement towards something, okay? Trees, plants are moving towards the sun. Right. They just go to. And eggs are working their way to becoming chickens. So, humanity is walking its way towards something. We're no different from the caterpillar and the plants. We are developing in a way. So, my question would be to the atheist or who doesn't believe anything, what are you working towards? What is your purpose? Yes. What are you becoming? Because you're not just here. I know and I know some people just believe they're just here to live and die and they become nothing. It's possible that they are one of those people that are here to just live and die, okay? So, there are people who sometimes they call them NPCs these days, non-player characters. There are people who are soulless. Right, right, yes. So, if somebody comes to me and says they don't believe anything, I will believe them. Yes. That maybe they don't have an internal monologue. There's a research that came out that said that about 73% of Americans don't have an inner monologue. Oh, wow. So, I would believe them and I would respect their viewpoint but I do always tell them that please look at my website. I write about myself and I'm very open that I am not for everyone. Right. I am here for the earnest seekers of the light. Those who, you know, who believe that they have an internal process to develop within themselves and who want to be supported or guided in that process. So, I'm very comfortable in saying that I am not for everybody and I think I should clearly state that in my book that I am reaching out to my angelic brothers and sisters. I'm reaching out to the indigents of this planet and those who are here to volunteer. Those who are, who care about receiving love and light from the most high. I'm here for those that are open-minded and they want to learn from one another and they are not judging and dismissing other people but willing to learn from even the criminal behind bars because he himself could have chosen that position in order to save souls inside behind bars. You just never know. Exactly, exactly. Now, I see your book in a few different parts. Your journey, your insights into spiritual psychotherapy, and then you go deeper into situations such as demonic entities, psychological astrology, energy healing modalities, and more. And as you've addressed, our issues and traumas have a lot to do with our childhood, our cultural backgrounds, and sometimes even our geographical locations. I know a lot of people and possibly even you thought I would start with this, but now I want you to give us some insight into your childhood. Okay, so I was born in Lagos, Nigeria and my father was Muslim. My mother was Christian. Okay. My grandmother was very much Muslim and Native African religion respected our Native African Jebu religion. So the tribe I come from are the Jebus depicted in the Old Testament as the Jebusites. And so there's many stories about our migration patterns from that part of the world to Ethiopia, Sudan, and then to West Africa. And growing up, I had seven brothers and sisters. And my parents happened to be people who really cared about materialism, external show of appearance, wealth, and power. But from an early age, for me, I wasn't. I was just naturally not that type of person. But I was also very inquisitive about these various religions as I studied the Quran and went to Bible study, because I went to missionary schools. And so Bible study was a daily exercise. It wasn't a weekend church one hour, it was, if you want to pass first grade, you have to pass Bible study to advance to grade. And so I learned the Bible pretty well, but also studying the Quran. And I found very interesting similarities. So to me, the first thought in my head was, why are these people fighting? They're saying the same thing. And growing up, I had due to severe neglect, health issues. I described a time when I was in boarding school and had near-death experiences, and which prompted me to find my peace and solace in a church, the Born Again Christian Church, and had many spiritual experiences as a child, a 12-year-old, a 10-year-old, 12-year-old, would have multiple spiritual experiences, almost on a daily basis. And so I had to learn to differentiate the spiritual world from the physical world. I work today with many children who are sensitive like me, but it was never discounted or dismissed, these experiences, because they were very, very real to me. In fact, I describe in the book how I would have dreams, and they would happen exactly verbatim the next day. Oh my goodness. Yes. And the people I never met, places I never been to, I would dream about it. And the very next day, I would meet the person wearing the exact same outfit in the same place and saying the same thing. So I began paying closer attention to my dreams. I remember I would have dreams that I would get into trouble, and I would be flogged and beaten by my parents. And so I would wake up the next day, and I would get on my knees, and I would say, please God, please don't let me get into trouble. I promise, don't let me get into trouble. But then it would happen exactly as my dream, and I would get into trouble. So I remember one day, I was so upset with God, and I said, why did you let me get into trouble? I asked you not to let me get into trouble. And then I got a vision. I saw a vision of a book, and I saw almost like the book was being flipped forward really fast. And I got the impression in my mind that when you're picking up a book, your story is already written from beginning to the end. And that I was here by destiny. And so everything that is happening to me as a child was going to be used in future, in my future. And that I did not have much, like I had very little free will, and that the vast majority was divine will. In other words, I was destined to do and become what I was destined to do and become. And that me seeing what is happening in my dreams, it's not to change it, but to prepare for it. And so that taught me to become more observant and aware of what is being said to me and how things are evolving around me. Not that I'm not going to affect it, but I'm thoughtful in the ways that I interact with the external world. My childhood was very spiritual, not because I went to the mosque every Friday, we went to Ramadan, we fasted. My grandmother was someone that I talked about that was very influential in my spiritual life. My spiritual life was extremely important to me from a very early age. And I understood from that message, especially from that message from the Holy Spirit, that I was going to accomplish what I came here to accomplish. And I was able to see what I was. And so when I say I'm an angel sent by God, it's because I've known that since I was a child. Yes. When you talk about sensitivities, as a child, what are you speaking of directly for my audience? Okay, sensitivity can involve many things, sensitivities to foods, or allergies to foods, or sensitivities to certain people. So what I came to see from my own spiritual experience is that certain people are so diametrically different, energetically, sometimes they even marry themselves, which is very strange, that they're not supposed to be with each other, they're not supposed to be around each other, because the energies are very different. And so if you're somebody that you're coming from a purer, your soul is purer than others. And when I say purer than others, I'm not saying it as a judgment. I describe earth like a school. And we're all here to learn. And each lifetime, we're refining ourselves. In Buddhism, they talk about good and bad karma, enlightenment substances, and dark substances within the soul. So the soul is incarnating in order to work on its bad substances, its dark side, its shadow side. And we will have external experiences that would help us to transmute the darkness within the soul. Everybody is having a proportion of it. It's like when you are in school, from kindergarten to high school, even in third grade, there's kids that have 50%, there's kids that have 100%, there's kids that are getting B's. We're all different and unique in that way. It is about us going within ourselves to understand where we are, what we need to work on. And that's what spiritual psychotherapy helps with. So I could see that there are, I could see my, whether my ability was, the abilities where I'm able to work with people of different soul levels. But also understand when it is, it is more helpful to back off from certain situations. And it's all about discernment. And so children, for me as a child, I didn't have really anyone to help me understand my spiritual complexes. You can go to church, you can go to the mosque, but do you understand your dreams? Do you understand your visions? Do you understand what your soul is trying to impress into you? It is an internal relationship. So I work with kids who are very sensitive. They say they have ADHD, they say they are schizophrenic, but in reality, it is helping them to understand their sensitivities to negativity. That's what, I had someone else on my show, now it's maybe been a couple of years ago. And this person helped me realize, they gave the example of a child, say at the grocery store, and that child is doing a temper tantrum, maybe even on the floor. But, and I, and like I told the person that I was interviewing that, you know, I just have been judgmental and looked at the child and then looked at the mother or father, wow, you really don't have control of your child. But this person that I interviewed made me realize that child may have sensitivities to the light. The grocery store is a very robust place. And some children may have the sensitivities to the light, to all the different stranger people that's walking up and down the aisles at the grocery store. There's workers in different spots doing different things. And so that, that's one of the things I was thinking of also is sensitivities. And therefore that child could be maybe ADHD later on, determine whatever have you. But I'm just simply saying, before you make a judgment, when you see these outbursts are from a child or from an adult, it could be just like you were describing their reactions to combat negativity. Yes. So many of the kids I work with have this sensitivity. They can sense negative energies around them. They can sense that their teacher is not well-meaning or doesn't care about him. They're not, they can sense it. They can sense that they are not comfortable with certain people talking to them or certain people touching them because they can sense that the soul of that person has an ulterior intention. So they have a reaction to whatever that person is trying to do. A lot of people are not cognitively aware of themselves. They're not cognitively aware of their soul, their energy or the ways in which they manipulate other people for energy. They don't, they're not aware of it. They, some people think that they're being nice when in actual fact, people pleasing is a way of manipulating energy from other people. They're not self-aware. Now children, before they start to put on a mask, they're more aware of adults. And so I'll, I have an example. So let me give you an example. So no, this is just a story. So I had this young man who was 12 years old, who had been to different therapists, psychologists, because he had an issue with encomprises. So encomprises is when a child defecates in other places besides the toilet. Oh, wow. I never knew that. Yes. So there is a diagnosis called enuresis and encomprises. Enuresis is when a child pees on themselves outside of the toilet and encomprises is when they defecate outside of themselves. Now, usually when such children come into therapy, the first, based on training, the first suspicion of the therapist is that this child would have, must have been sexually abused. That's usually the first red flag or, or we have to eliminate the possibility of abuse. Now this child had gone to different therapists and psychologists and he insisted that he had not, no such thing had happened to him at all. Okay. But when he came to me and I looked at his astrological chart, I realized immediately that this was a very sensitive, clairvoyant child. And I, when I began talking to him, come to find out that while he was, when he was about six years old, he was in the toilet doing his business and a entity or reptilian type of evil energy manifest materialized in front of him. And he was, let's just put it scared out of his mind. So that age, he refuses to go to a toilet because he was so traumatized. And then he tells me about how he's in the classroom and he sees all these shadow spirits whispering in children's ears and pounding them up and making them behave badly. When I asked about toilets in the bathroom, the toilets in school, he said, he sees these things that would materialize into portals in the, in the toilet. So he refuses to go to the toilet because of this trauma. And he never opened up to any therapist about this. He would, he didn't even open up to his mother about this. He's very worried about his mother because his mother was at the time in a relationship with someone who he believed was not a good person. So he very quiet and he wouldn't speak, but he knew when to approach his mom because he could sense his mother's demean, her energy, her shifting energy. So I, and then I asked him, I said, well, he opened up to me immediately because he sensed my vibration and he sensed that I was someone he could trust. Oh my goodness. Wow. And we're not giving away any identities here is this a young person. Have they been able to now go to traditional bathroom without being brightened or is this person still being worked on or no, there has been significant progress. This was many, many years ago. So they have been significant progress and he's, he's much older now, but he also happens to be someone who by all intents and purposes, he probably would have been diagnosed as autistic or other diagnosis. He would have to learn to walk between and betwixt worlds to be able to use the both hemispheres of the brain to navigate this 3d reality. And I think for me, he very much reminded me of myself because I had also those experiences, but I think on my own, I learned how to be logical and to know the difference between to be able to understand the spiritual and the physical, but I could also see that they were interfacing with each other. In fact, one is affecting the other one and the other is affect. They're all interfacing and affecting each other. I also saw that the spiritual had more of a stronghold and influence on the physical. So if you can, if you had an intimate understanding of how the spirit works, then the physical life will be a lot more positive or peaceful. And it's not intellectual because a lot of people are very intellectual about spirituality. And I see it on podcasts and YouTubes and they're talking about this and I can tell that it's all intellectual, but people can't because they think they are saying all the right things and they're very, what's the word, charismatic. People fall for that. Yes. Yes, they do. That charisma mixed with religion is a lot of times a dangerous signal. Yes. And so now Khadijah, how do you work with your clients? I think you're located in Texas. Do you do any online therapies? Yes, I do. I work with individuals online and in person. And my hope is that someone would take a shine to my book and say, Hey, let's start, let's open a healing center. Let's expand. Let's learn how being in a relationship with ourselves, master ourselves, and then turn around and support others in their own self mastery. So my hope is to continue to expand and to reach out to folks. I do have clients around the country and around the world. But again, it is the more people come together and begin to explore these ideas, the better for all of us. Most definitely said. And Khadijah Quadri, I appreciate you so much of making us aware of spiritual psychotherapy and how all of that works. I really appreciate you bringing this to my audience. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you. Thank you.