Ricky Gervais Gets Honest About His Offensive Jokes | FULL INTERVIEW

A joke isn't real. It's weird that you can be offended by a joke. But there must be jokes that you find offensive. I find things offensive all the time. I can't imagine you could do something that no one found offensive. It's just impossible. There's always that niggling doubt in your head, like, this is the one. This is the one that ends your career. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, well, I guess so. But does that still work? I don't care. No. Ricky Gervais is here in the studio. Thanks for coming in, Ricky. My pleasure. It's an exciting day when you've got a new show out? Or nervous? Yeah. What's the sort of emotion? Both. Yeah, excitement. It's funny because I'm probably more excited about this than I've been for ages. I don't know why. I suppose it's slightly out of my comfort zone. Right. You know? What do you mean by that? Well, I don't know. I don't know how many people watch adult animation. I don't know how many people want to watch a sitcom about cats. I don't know. Do you know what I mean? But then again, you never know. You know what I mean? You never know. Are they going to like it? You don't know. Yeah, but... I mean, to be honest, if you were going to apply that, then, you know, Afterlife and Derek. Afterlife, I know. Life's too short. I mean, you could probably go, would someone want to watch? That's true. If it gets a tenth of the viewers of Afterlife, I'll be very happy because that was a huge surprise. But, you know, I like it and I hope other people do. I guess you can't do much more than that. If it makes you laugh, you'll give it a go. Well, no, because everyone's different. So you don't know when you're doing it. It's the same as stand-up. You can write and write and until you walk out there and say it, you don't know whether it's funny or not. Right. It's made to be seen, isn't it? It's not therapy. You know what I mean? It's like I do it for people to see it. And the only reason I want loads of people to see it is because they let me do it again. You know what I mean? And they seem to be quite happy to let you have a roll of the dice. It seems to be going all right at the moment. But, you know, there's always that niggling doubt in your head, like this is the one. This is the one that ends your career. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, well, I guess so. I don't care. No. I just want to put something you mentioned earlier on because someone said this to me the other day. Someone said, well, a funny joke's a funny joke. And I was thinking, well, it's not universally funny, though, is it? Because, and I think that is... People don't find... There's not one thing that everyone finds funny. No, of course not. And I do... And when I do stand-up, you know, I do sort of joke about taboo subjects. So I might do 20 jokes about different taboo subjects. And everyone laughs at 19 and doesn't laugh at the one that affects them or they think they take personally. They've got their own red line. Yeah, there's always someone who doesn't like a joke somewhere. But you've just got to hope that, overall, you're doing okay. Yeah. And that's a good point because I wanted to talk to you about the sort of state of comedy generally because that fear of causing offence, I know you've spoken about it a lot before. Is it something that's holding comedy back, do you think? I don't think so. I think it can do. You know, it probably does worry some people. But I think they're wrong because I think if you, you know, shave down all the sides so nothing's spiking and no one's offended by anything, then no one likes it either. I mean, I can't imagine you could do something that, you know, no one found offensive. It's just impossible. So all you do is do something that's so anodyne and boring that, you know, it doesn't just not cause offence. It doesn't cause anything. Yeah. It doesn't cause any reaction. This is vanilla. Yeah. But there must be, there's jokes you probably, you must have heard things you go, I find that, that you find offensive. I find things offensive all the time. You know, I've said that, of course I do because everyone's different. But not jokes so much. Jokes aren't real. I find things offensive like animal cruelty and, you know, things that are actually happening that we should try and stop. A joke isn't real. It's weird that you can be offended by a joke. I don't get it. I know why some people take things personally because it's, it's, the subject is about something that, you know, touches them deeply maybe. But it's not real. You're not actually doing it. You're not actually hurting anyone. Yeah. And that's what I say to people. Don't watch it. If there's a chance, if you're easily offended, you just shouldn't watch it. Some people watch to be offended. You know, being offended is quite an addictive thing. Some people go online, they look for things to be offended because it gives them a little adrenaline rush and then, you know, endorphins. Some people are addicted to being angry and offended. Also, a lot of people think it's a sort of modern affliction but when we were kids, like Mary Whitehouse was a very famous campaigner for saying we're all being offended by anything that we watch on TV. I think she had a whinge about Grange Hill. Yeah, it's all that changes is the group being offended. Who's the dominant group? And that often changes, you know. And we've just been through like a few years of, you know, people finding, you know, some things off the charts offensive. But we're coming out of that now, so-called cancel culture. And you've just got to ignore it. I mean, I go head on into it. That's how I deal with it, you know. Sure. I just, for me, it helped comedy. Right. Because, you know, it's like evolution by natural selection. Who went for it? Who stuck to their guns? Who came out the other side? Right. I quite like it. Do you think there are a lot of comics that haven't done that or maybe haven't stuck with, you know, you could accuse them of being spineless? Well, I wouldn't accuse anyone. It's up to you how you deal with it. I mean, but I think it's better to do what you want and fail than to live your life, you know, in a hole not doing anything, never raising your head above the parapet, you know. And it could go wrong one day, but I don't care. I've had a good run. You've earned enough. Yeah. Someone told me the other day that you earn a million quid from a stand-up show. Is that right? Well, I… Well, not everyone. No. But I thought… So, listen, Alley Cats. Yeah. It's out today on Netflix. First of all, tell us what the show's about and what the concept behind it is. To be reductive, to help explain it, it is a sitcom. It's a sitcom about some talking cats and it's animated. It's quite adult. It's only adult because of the language. It's quite the language. The language, yeah. Was that an issue? Did Netflix have an issue with that? No, they just said, well, you know, we've got to say kids can't watch it. And I went, fine. That's fine. You know, they will anyway. I'm hoping there's some really bad parents out there who let their kids watch this. Right. Or they might not realise. Oh, this is cute. Look, little Johnny loves cats. Well, if it wasn't for the swearing, it is really cute. And I think the values of them are upheld. I think it's uplifting. I think it's philosophical. You know, I think they're, you know, wonderful cats. But there is swearing. So I'd say teenagers are fine. But I probably wouldn't let anyone younger than a teenager watch it because it probably does undermine the moral fabric of society. And the cast of the show is familiar to people that enjoy your work because it seems to me that you work with the same group of actors, right? Yeah, a lot of people I've worked with, I've worked with them, you know, they've been working with me for like 15 years. We've got Kerry Godleyman, Tom Basden, David Earl, Joe Hartley, Tony Way, Andrew Brooke, Natalie Cassidy's new to the fold. Why do you use the same...? Because I know what they can do. I know what they're good at. I know everything. I know all their strengths. So I actually cast it before I wrote it. So I cast it. I said, that'd be a good this. I can make him do this, her do this, do that. Which makes it really organic and sort of like, you know, fully rounded. Everyone does their bit. Everyone does what they're good at. They're not just, you know, comedic actors. They're comedians and they're writers and producers and directors and they know the bigger picture. And we just have a laugh. We go in, we probably, we record for like two hours and we probably get about 60 minutes to cut down to 15. So if you can't make that work, then there's something wrong. But, you know, it's so much fun and it's so easy to get good results like that, I think. It feels like, correct me if I'm wrong, it feels like, a lot of it feels quite improvised. It is. It's probably the most improvised thing I've ever done. I mean, there's still a screenplay. So we go in with like 15 to 20 pages. So there is a script? There's a script. Oh yeah, it's all scripted. Because you can't just have it because you don't know what you've done before. Or, you know, we film one episode per day maybe. But if you went off on what they were doing and what the plot was, you'd have to go back and change what you did yesterday. Sure. So there's a plot, there's guidelines, there's things that actually have to happen, there's lines. And then we do all that and then we go, okay, let's have fun. And then we go off on flight to Fancy and we go into the conversation more. Like I'll go, okay, now say why you think that. Okay, now you say to him this. So then I orchestrate. Oh, okay. Because there's one moment, for instance, where you talk about the legality of killing a child. Which feels, from a cat's perspective. And that is mostly ad-libbed. So we knew what they were doing. I knew when they say, you know, four lions can take down an elephant. We're little lions. What's the biggest thing we could take down? And one of them goes, fat kid. So we go to the school. And then I go, let's have a conversation before it happens. So then they talk about, are we allowed to do this? Of course we are. We can do anything. So that's all ad-lib. And we're laughing. You can hear some stifled laughter. And I keep going, sorry, is this okay? Is this okay? And they all laugh and go, let's do it again, let's do it again. Sometimes I will go, that is too much. We cannot put that on the telly. You've never said that in your life? I have. I have said it. And then, but then I feel it. I can put it on the telly. I go, come on, Rick. Of course you can. It's a wonderful show. Where did the idea come from? Has it been a long sort of gestation period? Yeah, I guess it has. I don't know why I did it like that in that format. I think I remember it was lockdown. And my tour, I think I was on tour with Supernature, I think. And that had all been postponed. And then filming Afterlife Series 3 had been postponed. And I thought, I know, I could do animation. Because I could sort of record on Zoom and I could draw the... And I drew Gus. I thought, right, that's it. And I started. And then, of course, four years after lockdown it gets made. So I knew I wanted to do an animation. I've always loved cats. I think cats are funnier. People say, why cats and not dogs? I think because cats don't care about humans like dogs do. So it's already funny. And it's a sitcom about a group of hapless sort of people, which most sitcoms are. And they're fighting against a harsh world. And all they've got is each other. And they've got such short lives. And I just want people to root for them. I want people to root for these feral cats. And I think people will. There's obviously a history of successful adult-focused animated shows. Family Guy, Simpsons. Was that sort of in your mind? Yeah, that's it. I didn't even know. I didn't even use the term adult animation. Netflix said, I said, what's that? I think it's got connotations. I think it sounds a bit weird and creepy. But it is like that. It's adult animation like Simpsons and Family Guy. It's that sort of vibe. So, yeah. I mean, they're huge. So, I mean, it could be a hit. I hope it is. You never know. Often people will have The Simpsons and The Office as the top two favourite comedies of all time. Me, for example. Yeah. 25 years. You know, it's the anniversary. Yeah, it's mad, isn't it? 25 years. I know. Yeah, I feel it. Yeah, I'm looking at myself on the monitor here. Yeah, it looks like he's been going about 25. It looks like he's been going about 55 years. Have we got a heavy filter on that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I don't know. 25 years. I know. Is there going to be any... Is that going to be reflected in any way on any channel? No, I did a thing on my YouTube channel and I brought out a... I can't say this, can I? I brought out a special edition bottle of vodka with David Brent on it. Okay. That's about it. I think the BBC did some... I think they're... In fact, I think the BBC are putting me talking about my favourite moments on iPlayer next week. So... But that is this. It's always summer, isn't there? I mean, you can't keep doing it. 25 years. What, 26 years? We do 27 years. Who cares? Move on. Then it'll be the extras next. Yeah. Yeah, that... Yeah, exactly, yeah. Alleycats. 25 years. Now, sadly, Ricky is no longer with us. But here at Heart, we'd like to celebrate 25 years of Alleycats. He died doing what he loved, sitting in a bucket and screaming at the telly. It's out now on Netflix. Ricky, good luck with the show. Thank you for popping in today. Appreciate it. My pleasure.