Paul Lê : "Un papa, c'est un cadre bienveillant" – #LMDM

It's summer break, and summer break is often combined with the past to talk about the beautiful summer. Sometimes in the present to set immediate goals, and always in the future to pick up what we've tested. That's what summer break is. After dropping the kids off at the nursery, at school for the younger ones, the dads immediately immerse themselves in this daily conjugation. How to be praised in a career while being a present dad? That's the theme of the day. And naturally, after the conjugation, it's a matter of coordination. Paul Lé is a successful entrepreneur who keeps the same requirements, whether it's a fundraising or a teacher-teacher meeting. Hello Paul Lé. Hi Lucem. How are you? Great, I'm very, very happy to be here and to talk about this topic, as you said. I'm very happy to have you for several reasons. First, because I said it, you're a successful entrepreneur. You have to admit it. We haven't heard much about you in recent years. We should have, because you've been working for a long time. We'll have time to set the scene and explain all that. But above all, you're a present dad and a dad who wants to be present for his children on a daily basis. I was talking about teacher-teacher meetings, about the requirements of teacher-teacher meetings. We'll talk about that later. Did you have a good time at home? It went very well. I was able to drop off my two children, as I try to do every day. I dropped them off again this morning. And I think it went well, as they got along better than I thought. You have a dad of two boys, right? Five years and nine years old. Primary school, and the two of them, right? Primary school and the third grade of kindergarten. But for her, the little one is in high school. Is he older than the big brother and the dad? I don't know, but in any case, compared to the others, I hope the others, not me and the dad, won't listen to him. But to recognize him by saying that, it's true that he's quite old. We can feel the entrepreneur, you see. Maybe even the dad. We're working on it, we're working on it. Maybe the dad too. Quickly, I introduce you as an entrepreneur. But if you had to introduce yourself, Paul, what would you say about yourself? In fact, yes, I'm an entrepreneur. But what I would say about myself is that I like to do what I like to do. That is to say? I like to meet people every day. I like to work with people I like. I like to see that people are happy around me. So I like to surround myself with happy people. A bit like in my family. So to do that, I'm an entrepreneur. Because I think I'm the only person to be able to set this framework for my own requirements. Is that your requirement? Exactly. Are you demanding with the two boys you have? We said five and nine years old. I'm quite demanding on the basics. Politeness, that's it. And to live in collectivity, in society. Respect. Do they know what you do? Do you explain it to them? The older one, yes. The older one is starting to understand. Has he already set up his first company at 9 years old or not yet? He hasn't set up his first company at 9 years old yet. But I hope he will set it up soon. We are, well, I come from an entrepreneur family. I think my grandfather was. I didn't know much about his story. But what I see is that he is in business. Between India and Vietnam. My two parents were entrepreneurs. We will come to that. We will detail all that. I have four sisters. My two older sisters are entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs, sorry. I think the last two who are not yet. Good letter. It won't be long. I feel good, you see. So it's a family job. Five children, five entrepreneurs. It's not bad. We feel this family vibe. And you will explain it to us. We will also detail your childhood. And also your relationship with entrepreneurship via your parents. What was transmitted to you. This taste for work. Making a little fiction. If you had a dictionary that you wrote yourself. What would be your definition of the word dad? What would you put for yourself? What is a dad? It's a very, very, very good question. It's a tough question. It's already someone who has a definition. Who offers a framework. And a benevolent framework. Is benevolence important to you in education? It's extremely important. It's extremely important to have benevolent people in general. Empathetic benevolent humans. You see, I'm from tech. I see everything that tech will offer us. It already offers us today. In the end, there will be humans. And if we are not benevolent to each other. And have empathy. Understand in which world we live. It's going to be complicated. So if I had to give the definition of a dad. It's a benevolent framework. A benevolent framework. To understand the dad you are today. I find it less necessary to understand where you come from. Who you are. You are a Frenchman of Vietnamese origin. Your parents came from Vietnam, right? Or were they born here? My parents fled the Vietnam War. So before arriving in France. They went to India. Because my dad is an Indian Métis. So he took advantage of his Indian roots. To tell the Vietnamese. Look, I'm not Vietnamese. I'm Indian. Let me get out of the war. So he avoided the bad people. And they came to have my mother in France. With my three sisters. And my father joined them three months after India. And then they sold them in France. And to make the task easier. You landed in the suburbs. Exactly. And you are very proud. You often highlight this. In your career as an entrepreneur. Very proud to be from the suburbs. And you highlight your success. And you often make a link. Between what you experienced when you were young. And what you live today. First of all. I think that. We have all those who have left the suburbs. And who work today. In non-suburban companies. Tend to want to hide their roots. And it's something I've observed for a long time. Before and today. I still see brothers and sisters. Moving to Paris. Which is very good. But forget what the suburbs have given them. Already. Friends. I decided to stay with my childhood friends. To Ivory. That's it. You grew up in the suburbs of Ivory. Exactly. So my friends. I like to have long-time friends. And who don't look at me as an entrepreneur. But rather as their primary friend. It also made us want to get out of it. Because. Obviously there are a lot of excellent things. But there are things that are not normal. And when you look at the rust on the outside of the suburbs. It makes you want to get out. It gives you a slab. And success today. We owe it to this slab. We owe it to this slub. And we must not forget it. And we must not forget that we are a mixture of. Of benevolent things. And sometimes hard things. And it is this mix today. Which allows us to. Insert ourselves in this professional social environment. And to be able to speak to a large number of people. And when we say speak. It's also listening. Listening is empathy. We have empathy because we have lived it. Do you explain this to your boys who are 5 years old? So you. You made the choice to stay and live. In the corner where you grew up. While you could have. And we will detail your success later. You could have made the choice. Of a lot of people in fact. Who want to get up. And extirpate from a certain social determinism. And to say to yourself. You see. I have a little more success in my life. I'm going to live in places. Much more pleasant. Much quieter than what I've known. You made the choice. Despite the success. It's very strange to say despite. And succeed in the same sentence. You made the choice to say. I'm going to stay in the corner where I grew up. Is it to explain something to your children? So already. It's to explain something to my children. You understood everything. So explain what. Already. I have four sisters. And I have parents. Who stayed to live there. So. The family ties for me. Spending time. Between cousins. With his uncles and aunts. It gives you. A base in life. I hope. I wish that my children. Travel a lot afterwards. But. And to take risks too. Whether professional or personal. Take risks. But when you take risks. Knowing deep down. That. Whatever happens. You have people. Behind you. Who are in a certain place. And who are waiting for you. With open arms. Whatever. It gives you a lot of strength. So. Do you think you wouldn't have had it? If you had gone to live. Really. I would say. We had as an example. But if you are going to live at night. Do you think the children would not have felt that? This family support? I am. I'm sure. But after. Everyone. His. His experience. Even his experience with life. As he wishes. Today. I have the impression. It's a formula. Which worked for me. What works for me. You too. I want to pass on to your children. And. I want to pass on. These. These familiar links. Familiar. To my children. And I also want. They understand. Where their parents come from. You see. My parents. They grew up in Vietnam. But I don't know. In fact. You see. I may have known. Three childhood friends. After 60 years. You see. It was my friend. 60 years ago. 40 years ago. I agree. I don't hesitate. To party. That there. See. My children. Who hang out. My friends. From high school. From elementary school. When we go out. In the street. At the supermarket. Yes. I go to the supermarket. Even if. I sat down. To sell groceries. You were successful. In the foodtech. And yet. You go to the supermarket. Yeah. Because. You have to show them. What it is. A caddy. You hear. Exactly. When they see. People. I haven't seen for years. And that. We take. We take our arms. And we spend. Five minutes. To laugh. To remember. Memories. There are energies. Which are transmitted. And. And these are things. Which do me good. And I think. Which can also do good. To children. That's the transmission. And we understand. In any case. In your speech. That education. It is everywhere. In our context. In our environment. You talked a little bit. About your dad. And. About his life journey. To him. Who had to leave. Vietnam. To go through India. And arrive here. In France. He's an entrepreneur. You said. Yeah. And. So he was. In the restoration. Yeah. It's my two parents. Who were in the restoration. Today. To be an entrepreneur. In France. We must be part. Of the 5%. Of the. People. You see. And in fact. It's. Maybe. A global anomaly. When you go. In Southeast Asia. And even more. In the years. 60. 70. Get rid of yourself. And look for. What to eat. In the evening. You don't wait for an employer. You have to create. Your opportunity. And when you create. Your opportunity. You are an entrepreneur. Create your own business. Buy. Sell. Do something for someone. It's something very natural. In fact. And. Except that in France. When. My parents arrived. They were like everyone else. In CDI. That's it. But. You can't say. That housewife. And househusband. Are. Passionate jobs. But. They were in an entrepreneur mode. That is to say. I want to get up. To go make money. And feed my family. And then at some point. Well. It's capped. Since I can't earn more. Because. You have to pay. An institution. A company. Employees. Taxes. That kind of thing. And to earn more. And to be. A little more comfortable. You have to. Work. And often. Work for yourself. And create your own business. It's. It's the best way. To get rich. So. They had this. This pattern. But. He was already. Because your parents. Or your dad. Told you. Textually. You too. You have to start. Or. Never. And I never say it. My children. You don't say it either. Your children. No. I. Don't. entrepreneurial and my door is open to my collaborators to talk to you about that. Because since earlier, I have been presenting you as a successful entrepreneur. I know, and knowing you a little, the humility that is present in you. I have to give you some figures, it's going to make you uncomfortable. I'm sorry for that. But here you are, you are co-founder of LaBelleVie.com, it's foodtech, it's food delivery and food packs. Now, today, you are very present in the market. We are around 10% of the foodtech market. Is that right, if I'm not mistaken? That's right, and the Franciliens. Franciliens. We don't speak French, you're right. Because the figures are still speaking. In 2023, with LaBelleVie.com, you made a turnover of more than 60 million euros. It's verifiable, we can find these data on the internet. So that's why I'm talking about a successful entrepreneur. You even bought a big brand with your partner, Frishti, who is also very well known for food delivery. That's why it's very important, everything you transmit, whether it's to your children and even to your employees, because you have more than 600 employees today. I learned, and not by you, I'm a little disappointed, that you even invested in an online medium, GooseCapé. You are not the only one, you have a consortium and you have also decided to give your person, always in this spirit of transmission. Always, yes. So you say that your children are not necessarily in entrepreneurship. You also want to transmit the message that your father also transmitted before. Be a good person and do something you like. That's exactly it. When you say that, you say to be an entrepreneur. It's crazy, because you know, I had a bit of the same transmission. Maybe because we grew up in similar worlds. Do good, avoid stupidity, be a good person. But I don't think I had the entrepreneurial fiber. You're getting it. You think? As far as what you're doing right now and what you're telling me, you're getting it. You worked in a large group, when you come from the suburbs, you work in a large group, it's the grail. And then at some point, when it's been years, you want to have the second grail, because you've been around people who have shown you that you can go even higher. And at some point, we say to ourselves that life is short, and we say to ourselves, us too. And I have the impression that you're telling yourself that. But it's true that you created LaBelleVie.com, I'm about to create LaTrèsBelleVie.com. Well, that makes me happy. I'm going to make you a competitor, be careful Paul. Be careful about that. How was it at school? What kind of student were you? A nice student. I wasn't a problem. I was always making fun of myself, that's for sure. I had a lot of friends. Maybe the kids will listen to this podcast. Yeah, I had a lot of friends. On the other hand, where I bring a little more framework to my children than parents gave me, I'm a little more behind them on their studies. And I could see one thing, it's that when I don't care, and it's a trait I still have today, when there was something that didn't interest me, I could go to zero on average. To say that it didn't interest you? Exactly. And on the same bulletin, you can have an average of 18 or 20 out of 20. Typically, I remember a third bulletin where I had 3 in math, 18 in physics. And why didn't you care about math? And the class council didn't understand. How can you have 3 in math and 18 in physics? Because math wasn't something concrete and the teacher didn't interest me. Once again, you see, I'm not interested in anyone. The teacher didn't interest me, the physics teacher interested me. Because he had a charisma, he explained things well and he made me want to work. And you want to do different with your children? And my children, I would like them to be in their maximum capacity in all areas. The non-football player side that I have, he was very loud when I was young. He still is today. When you have a meeting that doesn't interest me, I get up, I leave. Oh yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. That's an entrepreneur. Maybe I can get up from the podcast then. At some point, I'm not interested in what you're saying, Paul. I'm going to get up. When there are things that don't interest me, I'm binary. But it's in my genes. It doesn't interest me. And then my face changes, I become antipathetic. Compared to your smile, it makes me happy. But anyway, it's a podcast theme that's great. I dream of having a podcast. Yes, and above all, the theme that we develop with you, it's really... And now we're going to get into the heart of the matter. I'm talking about my passion. It's true, being a dad. You're passionate. There's nothing above it, actually. And it's true that we often wonder, as a dad, how to reconcile the two. How to reconcile personal life and professional life. It's hell. It's also for moms. It's for dads. And it's true that I tell myself, I'm going to ask a successful entrepreneur. How did he do it? And so we're going to get right into this subject. When did you want to be a dad, you? Was it very early in your life? No, I'm going to tell you the truth. Otherwise, my wife would have listened. She would have said, but what a liar. But she listened, that's for sure. Anyway, I'm going to tell you some things that she probably knows, but she never told me. No, no, but listen, I was 33 years old. I was coming from London. I hadn't even launched La Belle Vie yet. And my wife announces to me that she's going to be pregnant. But it wasn't a project. Oh, it wasn't a project. She was still a student. I was out of a company. My first company, which went bankrupt, but which didn't work. I didn't touch any money. Money, sorry. Pure zero. I don't even want the RSA. Oh, yes, yes. So a child in trouble. Yes, I had the letters in the mailbox. It was very, very hard. And now I'm going to be a parent. I'm starting to launch La Belle Vie, but just in the idea with my partner. You see, it's my partner who tells me, come on, let's partner up and launch the thing. So before generating money to feed yourself, it takes a few years. I was rather in a project. I wanted to find some stability. Before founding the family. And in the end, my partner was able to find the words to motivate me. But I'll never thank her. It's really fantastic to have a person like that in your life. In the end, right? Yes, of course. And with my wife, when she saw me first, I think La Belle Vie was two weeks old. OK. So it was in June 2015. So it wasn't a project with your wife to tell you, well, at such a time, I'm going to have a child. Or even earlier in your youth. For example, very early on, I wanted to start a family. Even though I hadn't even met my wife. But very early on, I wanted children. In fact, I couldn't start a family because I was in constant professional instability. And I had a lot of ideas. I always knew deep down that I was going to launch a company. And as long as you're not an Asian race, you don't make children. And I'm happy that we did it, of course, that we made that child. Because if we had to plan based on material comfort, I think that today, at 42 years old, I would still be a bit of a father. Oh yes? You're still in this instability despite the success? Yes, and I think about it a lot. I think instability is part of me. And it's something I'm constantly going to look for. To be productive? To be productive and in a more beautiful way, to feel alive. That's beautiful what you're saying. So you need that to feel alive. You need to be stimulated, not in danger, but almost. I need to be in the sauce all the time. I need to deal with problems all the time. Really? Yes. Otherwise, I gain weight, I have to go out, I have an unhealthy life. You don't like comfort? I'm not made for comfort. Oh, you think you're not made for comfort? I'm sure of it. Is that something you want to pass on to your children? To be constantly on alert? In fact, I think that you see, we have prehistoric men, hunters, etc., and I have the gene of hunting all the time in me. And I always need to be productive, to do something. And it's something that unfortunately can be harmful. Do you think it's transmitted? I don't hope so. Really, I don't hope so. Because this feeling, and maybe some people here or listening to this podcast, this feeling of being in society, surrounded by friends, but feeling different. Because his friends are playing football, but you want to play football, but you're carrying football, you want to do something else, you don't know what, but you want to do something. To do something, when you start to have a little maturity and knowledge, you know that you can put your energy in it. And you get out of the classic social life. And you put all your energy in it. And it can be very risky for you and for the people around you. So you want to protect your children from that. Do you prefer them to be a little more socially framed? I'm not saying socially framed. I'm just saying that the ambition, the desire to do, it can be a disease. It's a torrent that never stops. It's crazy. I would have imagined a speech of a successful entrepreneur, the speech of the transmission of the mentality, of your mindset. Imagine that you say to your children, listen, dad did it like that, this is the way. No, no, my way is... It's your way. It's my way. What I want to teach my children is to be happy. And make sure you're happy. And sometimes, to be happy, you have to do things by yourself. That you take the lead, that you raise your voice, that you create your own projects. Or that you are surrounded by good friends. And how to have good friends? Sometimes you also have to eat a little pork. The entrepreneur you are, would he be disappointed that your children are in the salary? No, no, no. My children do what they want. They are forbidden from being two jobs. Okay? Especially a banker. Why? Do you have too many in your life? I think it's a job at some point. Unfortunately, your institution makes you become a dishonest person. I'm not saying that the banker is dishonest. It's the institution, it's the system. The banking system makes honest people who work at some point in a dishonest relationship. So you forbid them this job? I forbid them. After all the rest, they do what they want. All the rest, they do what they want. Obviously, there will be pride and others a little less proud. What would make you proud, for example? What would make me proud? Obviously entrepreneurs. It would make me proud that they create companies, create jobs. And that every day they manage problems. After 20 years of problems, they have a maturity, a wisdom on a lot of things. That would make me happy. But you see, I have my grandfather who is very into art. If he becomes an artist, it would also make me happy. But when you're an independent artist, you're also an entrepreneur. But when you say he's into art, what does he do? For example, he paints, he draws? He paints, he draws. He has an elephant memory. He remembers all the stories. That's incredible. All the history of manga. He loves it. He remembers all the Japanese names in 14 syllables. He's passionate. Obviously, to de-stress, he's someone who draws. I find that quite poetic. We're going to learn in a few weeks that Paul Lé bought a manga media. He bought a publisher. He's going to start publishing manga. It's like that. I swear that if in a few months I learn that you bought a publishing house that makes drawings, I'll know why. When you're an entrepreneur, the cliché we have is someone who's very busy. I imagine that's also your reality, since you work a lot. How do you manage to make the distinction with your family life, your balance? What do you say? The weekend is for the family. I imagine that on the weekend, you also have your phone on your computer. Yes, that's it. On the weekend, you're always on your phone. Our dream today is to make decisions. At the beginning, it's to do. When you launch your company, at some point, you have collaborators. To help them, you have to make decisions. You have to go in that direction. That's most of my time today. When you have passionate collaborators, sometimes they don't stop. Helping them with decisions is more of a service. Children see you constantly working. They're used to it. At the beginning, that was it. That's why I tell you that you have to be extremely careful. When I tell you that I like to be in the sauce all the time, it's also true. It's not true on a personal level. As much as the professional, you can manage it yourself and you manage your ecosystem. Personally, you have to pay attention to your wife, your family, your children, even your dog. All these people, it's the principle of life. The more you pay attention to people, the more you create strong relationships. I want to create strong relationships with my children, my wife and my family. To do that, they shouldn't just see us in the newspapers or on TV. Of course, that makes them proud. But it's spending time with them because at some point, they know that you have a very busy life and the time you spend with them, unconsciously, they tell themselves that you're giving me a gift. Is that what you want them to see from you? I think what they say but what I want them to see from me is someone normal, the Paul they all know. I try to keep a distance from this success. Because the most important thing is to protect your loved ones and your family from everything that is ephemeral and the ephemeral success. What is eternal is the love you give to your loved ones. I decided to do that. How did you decide to do that? How? It's extremely simple. At some point, you have children. I had my first child six months after his birth before spending a whole day with him. After six months. That means that 48 hours after my wife's birth, I was already at work. You were in the middle of the launch of Bellevue.com. And six months later, I spent a day from morning to night with my son. Did you have a bad experience? Of course I had a bad experience and even today, when I talk about it, I tell myself, what a waste. Even if you have the impression that you have a successful company, that kind of thing. But in reality, I had to make the sacrifice to see my son grow the first six months of his life. At that stage, everyone knows that the child physically changes every day. It's obviously the risk of losing your wife. At some point, when you're not at home and you're not present as a partner or father, it's like everywhere, what's the point? Did you notice that very quickly? I noticed it, I don't know if it's very quickly, I noticed it before it was too late. And I've always been on fire at work to be able to enjoy my family. Every time I gained a little time at work because I had a new trial, I had hired the right person to take away those 10 hours of mental load per week, it was all the time to be able to spend more time with my family. And that's why I don't run events, we see very little in parties, even in the newspapers, I don't care because all of this is ephemeral. What is eternal is my family. And that, I want my children to understand that my father has a career, but that I have always been his priority. There are a lot of counter-examples in showbiz, all the torn families, because the guys go a little too far in the ephemeral, parties, etc. There are stars, they got married 5 times. It's interesting what you say about the balance between the ephemeral what you call the ephemeral, what can disappear, success, or even entrepreneurship, and also what is for you a little more solid, it's your family, your wife and your children. And I believe that, it's the strongest conviction I have in life, that is to say that the family and the love of your family and your children is what is eternal. All the success you have today, the relationships you have obviously, you have with people for a long time and you love them, etc. These are your friends. The successes, the press articles, the TV shows, the fundraising, etc. In truth, it's ephemeral. You don't care about that at the end. What remains at the end, it's your children, your wife, your friends. That's what remains at the end, that's why I wanted to focus on that. And the counter-example of showbiz, do you see people happy, doing drugs, at 60, alone, etc. This moment gave me a little pity, at 65, 70 years old, still on stage, like that, what am I looking for? And when you look at your family, it's a little sad. I have a lonely one, exactly. When you see Elon Musk, he should be an example for you. He should be an example, who obviously has a supreme entrepreneurial example. But personally, he's in trouble with his daughter. It would make me sad to be in trouble with my children. Steve Jobs, who is my absolute example of entrepreneurship. There's a girl he hasn't seen grow up, Lisa, you see. And big entrepreneurs like that, there are many who haven't seen their families, or at least sacrificed their families for their professional success. And behind big companies, you see, you take Microsoft, Bill Gates, his means in his family, his wife left him, etc. When you take... It means that success is necessarily associated with... The great success, and it depends on what you call success. Because having a happy family, for me, that's the supreme success. There are many who are like that, and I hope to be part of this circle. But professional success, what size of business, what success people see through you and your business, at some point, it leads to sacrifice. And it's when you say, I stop sacrificing. What is your ultimate sacrifice, your ultimate barrier, what does it bring? Today, I found a good balance between private life and professional life. And this balance gives me a lot of strength to not have professional limits. I know how to manage things to keep my free time with my family. Maybe an experience abroad, I won't do it again today. If I'm told tomorrow, develop a beautiful life in all the United States, and make a billion, 10 years ago, I would have said, I take the money and go right away. Today, I go home, I'll talk about it later. Because you can no longer make decisions alone, without consulting your entourage. So I have limits in terms of ambition, but my limits will rather be physical. And whether it affects my family and their comfort and their evolution. Do you constantly ask yourself these questions? Will my wife follow me? Will my children follow me? Yes, of course. I often joke with my wife because when I get home, I don't go to work anymore. Even if your children ask you questions on your day off, do you answer them? Yes, I answer them. Yes, I bought two or three boxes. No, no, no. I answer them, but I try to leave the maximum of my work in front of the door. And sometimes I suffocate her so much that my wife learns things by interviewing or talking with colleagues, etc. Ah, I didn't know, etc. Paul doesn't tell me anything. It's not because I don't want to tell him anything, it's that I try to compartmentalize that, and sometimes I'm a little extreme. I feel like I'm not telling him anything. It's not like that at all, it's that I protect her. And I also protect my family. I don't know what we wanted to say. No, but that's what I wanted to ask. How do you do it? I compartmentalize that by leaving my work in front of the door. And if it has to affect my family, of course, I'll talk about it. Obviously, you see, if I have requests abroad, if I have requests that are a little too visible, you see, a TV show, I already refused. You refused a TV show? Wait, I'm sure I know which show you refused. I won't say which one. I don't know. I refused a TV show called... I don't know. And I refused. Because it put you in the limelight? It puts me in the limelight. Once, I went to school and I had a dad, a friend of my son's, who saw an article about me, about the Parisian, and he came to see me, and he came to my house and he asked me for entrepreneurial advice. That bothers you? Yeah, I'm a little lazy. Because I don't want to seem so. I'm in my moment with my childhood, I'm in school, I don't want to talk about business. Yeah, it's like when you see a footballer at a restaurant, you tell him, stop it, you're making a mess. Yeah, but you have to accept that, it's part of his business now. You too. You were one of the Foodtech personalities of 2023, we saw it in Les Echos. You're a successful entrepreneur. It's normal that when we meet in the street... It's normal. When you start a business, I started a business because I want to have a company that changes the habits of my clients forever, like Uber, that kind of company. I wanted to start a business for that, but the qualification of the entrepreneur is something I never looked at. Obviously, it's normal, and I can't be stupid because I started because I was a Steve Jobs fan. I saw it, I saw it, and I would have done the same, but I didn't understand this point of view. Today, I see it, and you have to respect those who stop you in the street, who talk to you, and give them time, but it's not something that is sought after. You preserve your children too. It's something I could obviously live without very, very easily. To go back to how I preserve that, an emission on us, on... Go ahead, it's a two-finger. Leave me alone. I refused, I got political requests, because when you're a billionaire... That's the truth, Paul. Now, you're also asked for your intellectual skills, for what you represent. It's also a success story. For what I represent, it suits me. You see, to represent diversity in tech, you see, I'm not an outsider. I know there's a problem in tech, and this problem of diversity, you can't just point it out, you have to build it. Me, as a solicitor, to build solutions for more diversity, I accept with pleasure, even if I have to put my face in the shape of a gondola. I accept that, because there's a construction aspect and I fix society's problems with the little notoriety I have. But on politics, to get involved in the political part, I was already offered, it could have... Because my father was a fan of politics, it could cross my mind, but... My wife tells me directly, stop, you see, you're right, stop. Yes, because it engages too many people. We talked about the disconnection phase, how you manage to disconnect to preserve your family bond. I want to continue with you on the transmission towards children. If you had to retain one value, I know you repeated the word empathy but if you had to retain one value, if there really had to be one value that you would retain for your children to keep them. Empathy. Really? You really did entrepreneurship for that, we feel it in your business, there's a human value. There's a human value, but I didn't do it to have empathy. To bring empathy in people's lives, to make it easier. To make it easier, but when you have empathy, you put people in their place, it helps you evolve in society, it helps you understand a business, understand what your customers want. It's all important, it's empathy. When you talk about being a family member, it's empathy, because you also feel the pain that your family or your wife can have. So for me, empathy is the connection to people which is very important. If you can improve it, so be it. That's what I tried to teach but empathy is what's most important and even more important in the future we're creating. Why? What do you see? It's a very tech future. Very connected? Very connected. Obviously, it's launched. It's a future where artificial intelligence will have a lot of space. People shouldn't underestimate the profound change social and professional that's going to happen. It's going to happen very quickly. Robotics, which is very connected to AI, a lot of tools are going to disappear. In the end, there are going to be men and I hope that these men and these women will be able to continue to laugh and create together. That's what you say to your children? That's what I say to my children. And for that, you have to understand people. When you understand people, you know how to make the right joke. When you understand people, you can do what they want. And that, I hope, it won't be in IT or AI. I have the impression that it's the human race. I'm learning that. As for that, you can guide me in life. Before letting you recover your life as an entrepreneur, because you gave me time and I want to thank you for that. By the way, don't hesitate to give us stars. It's a podcast that is launched. It's the podcast of the parents. We really want to give a playground to the dads so that they can express themselves, that they tell their dad's truth, but also their husband's, wife's, partner's truth. It makes us happy to launch this podcast. It's also to respond to the mother's house. It's the sister. We also love this show and we do it together. There is a notion that you mentioned earlier and it speaks to me a lot. You were talking about the slab, the end of success, the desire to do things, the ambition that you could pass on to your children. And you see, I have a little 3-year-old boy and I'm completely in this reflection. I often talk about it. And I say to myself, how to pass on to my child this desire to succeed or to do things. I don't see success through mundane success, but I say to myself that I want my child to know that it is possible to do things and I want him to do things. And I, for example, a little like you, this lady that I had, this desire to do this, I had it compared to what I saw in my father. My father worked in a factory, I saw him suffer and I said to myself, he killed his health. He was in the south of the 80s, he was a central chauffeur, so he was in the syndiology. It was called a sword at the time. And I saw him do it. And I went to the factory when I had the idea to do his retirement papers and it had marked me. I said to myself, just for that, I don't have the right to fail. But how am I going to pass this on to my son? What do you say to yourself? How do you pass this on to your children? It's a very good question. What I try to pass on to my children and what they see of me, I have the impression, it's someone who does. Who does. That is, who knows how to take the lead, who knows how to get up from his chair, who knows how to lead projects, who knows how to take his responsibilities. It's someone who fights ahead and who tries to lead people. I have the impression that's what they see in me. Do they talk about it with you? They talk about it with me and maybe by selfishness. I like it when my children take me as an example. I like it a lot when they tell me I want to be like my dad. In what situation, for example? In all situations. When you play padel? No, no padel. In a lot of situations, I like it a lot when my children tell me I want to be like my dad. And when they understand that later, they tell me, I'm excited. Before you go, I asked each of my guests to bring one of the objects that make you think of your children. For those who only listen to us, you can find the sequence in the image. We will put it on the social networks of the Maison des Matardels. What did you bring us, Paul? You brought us a Pikachu. Can I see it? It's a Pikachu. Can I see it? It's a Pikachu. It's my son, Jack. He's the youngest. He's 5 years old. He's a fan of Pokemon. He's a fan of Pokemon in a way that makes me smile a lot. Because he understood the business of Pokemon cards. He says, I'm rich! I'm going to trade! He's in the business game at 5 years old. Imagine, without wanting to, you transfer the business cards even to Pokemon. I love it every time he sees a card. It's expensive, it's rare. How does he know that? He looks on the internet. At one point, I also got Pokemon cards. Because I didn't understand. It was a big business. I had friends who brought me Pokemon cards and I opened them for my kids. As soon as I saw a shiny or a full heart, I was like, wow! I scanned it with Google. It's 45 euros! My son loves it. So now, it's something sad in a way that I'm going to remove all notion of the game. He's directly in the game. He says, it's rare! I'm rich! He's crazy! Naturally, he decided to see Pokemon through the business card. And the second one? It's the flower of Murakami. Explain to us what is the flower of Murakami. Takeshi Murakami is a Japanese artist who was very famous for these flowers. These flowers were printed on 8-inch prints. A large part of Murakami's works were bought not by Bernard Arnault but by... Pinault! François Pinault. He's a great Japanese artist very famous for his pop culture. He made teddy bears on one of Kelly West's albums. How could you remember him apart from buying the manga publishing house? By buying him my pencils. That's the most important. Paul, I was very happy to receive you here. I was also very happy to come here because we have a common personal history. There are a lot of people like us. We have a certain history in the industry that pushes us to be an example for the new generation. If we can join hands with this common factor, it's cool. I'm very happy to receive you. I see in you someone inspiring by your success and your path. As you said, we have similar paths. I'm very happy to see your success and I wanted to know how you managed your life as a father. It's our daily pleasure to be present for our families. I hope you, who are listening to us, have seen how Paul managed to assimilate his life as a father and his life as a successful entrepreneur. I wish you a lot of success and more than that, I wish you to be a great artist. Much more than your success. I wish them. Everyone sees their talent. Anyway, we wish them and I wish you a lot of success. Next time, if you buy a company, let me know. Before you come to this studio and buy a company, let me know. Thank you Paul. It was a pleasure to have you in this podcast.