酒聞 《酒聞》第十三杯中｜PVG黃浦江畔的釀造辯證法

探討東西方哲學 理解宇宙的神祕奧祕 您的父親在某種意義上確實是個觀察者 當他賣掉了名字和葡萄園 他保留了家族最好的東西 他對您現在所做的事情很高興嗎 您的風格 您的方向 是的 其實我滿足了他的夢想 因為他一直想做我現在所做的事情 好的 但是他必須很快地成長 所以他在他最高峯時期做了很多製作 所以他不太享受自己所做的事情 好的 但是有一個小型的製作 我們可以控制農作物和釀酒 我們自己做 我們不需要一個很大的團隊 這就是工藝 這有所不同 因為我們可以共享 現在他已經退休了 但是他很想做 與他共享是對我來說非常重要的 因為他教了我一切 他就像是我的老師 您的導師 我對他真正付出了我所知的一切 好的 我買了我的新想法來創造新的東西 現在已經過了六年 您對維吾爾文化和製作有什麼改變 我對維吾爾文化和製作有很多改變 請談談維吾爾文化 維吾爾文化在17世紀是一種經典的維吾爾文化 但是在18世紀我們可以購買新的維吾爾文化 但是這些維吾爾文化很老 所以維吾爾文化的枯萎更高 所以我們說我們需要更高的枯萎 所以我們改變了整個維吾爾文化的枯萎 這意味著現在維吾爾文化的枯萎是1米65 而不是1米30 比起傳統維吾爾文化的枯萎還要高 這是維吾爾文化最主要的改變 我試了一下結果很驚訝 我把所有我們擁有的維吾爾文化都做了 驚訝的意味著什麼 維吾爾文化的枯萎更快嗎 維吾爾文化的枯萎更快 但是糖分仍然很低 所以當你得到更多的葉子 你得到更多的元素 你不會得到更多的葉子 但是你會得到更多的表面 所以你會得到更多的氧氣 這意味著你會得到更少的疾病 維吾爾文化的枯萎會減少 你不會每次都要去切割 所以你會得到更少的工序 所以你會得到更少的維吾爾文化 所以維吾爾文化的枯萎 只有工作的優勢 你會得到更多的工作 結果是如此的特別 值得去做 維吾爾文化的枯萎 是受到很多頂級領域的承認 不僅是維吾爾文化 全世界都承認 但是有些人認為維吾爾文化的枯萎太多 你怎麼看 我覺得維吾爾文化的枯萎 維吾爾文化的枯萎 大部分都是邏輯性的 因為維吾爾文化的一切 都是關於水的 水在植物裡 水在維吾爾文化 在土壤裡 所以月亮真的影響了 所有水的元素 甚至人類 我們主要是由水生成 我們的行為也會改變 視乎月亮 和不同的日子 我真的相信 至少 即使你跟隨月亮 你也不會犯錯 你只會改善 你的農作物和維吾爾文化 所以月亮是 維吾爾文化的重要元素 我和很多 維吾爾文化的人 維吾爾文化 看來你比較跟隨 準備的部分 還不如月亮的部分 例如 我主要都是月亮的部分 我做的結果很好的 譬如釀釀 釀釀 我就是 釀釀 是酒釀的重要分釐 你能做你想要的一切 其實都做了三年 如果你失去釀釀 你的所有工作都沒了 Yeah, you fucked up. So that's really a key period for a bottle of wine. And do you know lunar calendar is very similar to Chinese-Asian calendar? Yeah, I had this talk with a Chinese friend like two days ago. And so he talked me about that. But it works for human, for hair, for everything. It's based on the century of observation and all this. When I was studying biodynamic, I was looking over the lunar calendar. It's the same as our lunar calendar. Very similar. It's like being a farmer is just observing nature. And I think that's what biodynamic is all about. It's just realizing that things are happening. Sometimes we don't know why. But behind that, there is a logical point anytime. And the interval winemaking, you use big barrels. You are very careful with oxygen. There's a certain reductive style in your white wine winemaking. Do you think this kind of reductive white wine making style is sometimes going over the board right now with a lot of producers? I think that people try to tend to this style because that's the only way you can protect the white wine from aging. So it's the only way it can keep naturally. And for me, that's the solution of avoiding oxidation. So that's why people are more and more trying to reach that style. But then you need to control it. You shouldn't go over reductive wine. Otherwise, then you lose the nature and the style of the wine. You lose the terroir. You lose the tepidity of the vineyard. So you need to find the right balance. And that's why I will have the same process of winemaking for all the wines. So let's talk about Burgundy in general. Your father's generation started in the 80s. They really brought Burgundy back to life. Rising from the ash, like a phoenix. Your father's generation was Lafon, with Ancloud, with Pascal Marchand, Yitian Demonte, all these people. They started to focus on quality, vineyard control, hygiene, organic farming and all this. Over the years, 40 years forward until today, compared to their challenge and struggle at that time, what's your generation's struggle and challenge? That's a tough question. But I think the most challenging thing is climate change. We owe our first generation a lot for Burgundy style of wine, Burgundy farming. But we need to adapt a few things to make sure that we can keep going on this kind of quality. So I think the climate change is a big issue now. Because we get not necessarily warm vintage, but extreme vintage. So we get a lot more frost threat, more hail threat. So you need to adapt your pruning timing to make sure that you will avoid the frost. And then having, as I said, higher trellising really helps to protect the vineyard because you have more leaves, you have less possible impact zone for hail. You also better control your atmospheric temperature. Cooler. Having a bit of grass on the soil and higher trellising really brings shade and cooler temperature. So there is less evaporation for water. That's the main thing about what really matters for us for the future. And the style obviously changes over the years. There is a period of time that people focus on bigger wines, more alcoholic wines. Very ripe, sometimes overripe wines with a lot of oak. And now people are looking for minerality, freshness, sharpness, more drinkable wines, more drinkability. This kind of style change is because of consumer, or the critics, or the climate, or the winemaker yourself. Who's control or dictating this direction? Who dictated that? First, I think it's climate. Because if I was a winemaker 20 years ago, I would not be doing the same thing that I do right now. So even having the same taste. Because you don't have the same raw material to work with. So that's the main thing. Because the vineyards give us the fruit. And the fruit has a certain balance. So then we play with it. But it won't be the critics or the consumers that will change. For the very beginning of winemaking, you first need to play with your grape. OK. So I think it's a very important message. Many people think the market dictated by the consumer critics. Actually, it's the winemakers themselves. Sorry? It's the winemakers themselves. Yeah. For me, winemaking is kind of selfish at first sight. Because you first need to make a wine that you love. Otherwise, at least if you cannot sell it, you can drink it. No, the thing is that to share something with other people, you need to share the things that you like. OK. So you better do the wine that you really love. And then it's easier to talk about it, to tell the story about the soil, how you farm it. That's how I'm thinking. OK. And what is more difficult to make, white wine or red wine? Let's say red wine. I started with white winemaking. And I found my style quite fast. So red wine was more struggling for me. OK. It took me like seven years to really manage to find something new. And I like kind of create a new style of red winemaking. So having red vinification first and white vinification after. That means one week fermentation with the solid part, with the grapes. And one week fermentation with only juice. OK. This is thanks to World Cluster. Because when I press after one week, there is half of the sugar which is released. So I do both at the same time, red and white vinification.