Race, Identity & Surviving the ’90s with Justin Marlowe: Perfect Strangers Revisited

Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome back to Keeping It Real on Purpose. I am your host, Edna White, and this is this space is where we talk real things to real people and we spark real transformation. Today, I'm wel welcoming back a powerful voice, Justin Marlo, author of me of the memoir Perfect Strangers. His book took us deep into what it meant to grow up black in suburbia. Navigating identity, romance, family, and the echoes of civil rights movement. Justin gave us truth, tension, and tenderness in equal measure. But today, we're flipping the page and asking where he is now. Welcome to the show again. Thank you so much, Edna. It's a pleasure to be here. Um yeah, and to kind of pick up on where we left off, um months ago. So, uh you know, I had the opportunity to send you, um a copy, um you know, of the project. And so, yeah, I'm here to indulge in whatever you want to. Okay. All right. Awesome. Investigate. So, what have you been up to? I know we had a pre pre-show talk, but what have you been up to since then? uh like promotion um promotion and working on new material for other projects. Um got you know I've delved a little deeper into poetry recently. Um I found that that's a like a a good avenue for me to increase my brand if you will. Um right. So so yeah it's been promo and new creations. Oh nice nice. Okay. So, I want to go back to your book, of course, uh, Perfect Strangers, and I know it's deeply um, rooted in personal memory and collective history. Did revisiting your childhood when you were writing this book through that lens heal something for you or did it open up new wounds? Um the former [Laughter] it was it was very um cathartic and therapeutic I would say to to go back into moments that I never really thought that I would uh ever revisit you know so to go you know to go back into my like six-year-old self-year-old self and put myself in those scenarios where I mean let's be honest like I can't 100% accurately say what was occurring in like 1988 you know with respect to what I was dealing with but I can give you insight into my brain at the time right um so if I can if I could do that then that's sufficient enough for me to put it on in p on paper, you know. Right. Right. So, but doing that a mult a multitude of times, you know, with so many different moments. Um, especially with the moments that sort of like when it was like, okay, what did how did how did somebody say this to me or how did I say, you know, like trying to be word it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Be as accurate as I possibly could. Uh, those were very telling. Um, and I would say we're, you know, I guess you therapeutic moments w within the writing process. Yeah. Now, how does that translate into the projects that you're doing now? You know, do you think it's going to open up those very same wounds or it's going to be doing some healing? How do you see that? Um, when you mention opening up wounds, I have not I have not found that to be the case. Okay. Uh, for me, um, Uhhuh. If I open up a wound, quote unquote, then it's a healthy thing for me. Yes, I got you. It's been that way thus far. It's never It hasn't really been painful. Um, all of my poetry thus far has been uh micro non-fiction. So, got it's all um true stories with respect to something that I've gone through. Right. Um Right. But um my next um I guess like sufficient release is going to be fiction which is completely you know so it's not it's not something where I'm digging into my past um it's purely created by my you know by the brain it's different so it's different it's it's a different sort of um I guess like process of analysis for me um right but it's and it's a little bit harder Because I can't just sit and let my fingers flow the same way. No, you have to use that creative muscle. Yeah. And that creative muscle, it it it puts me into I would say more conundrums during the writing process because then I'm like, huh, what do because if it's not already written, i.e. like not already um you know, it hasn't already happened, then I'm like, right, well, what do I say now? I I I can say whatever I want, you know, up to me here. Um, right. And you know, I' I've I've I've attended some pretty solid uh like writing workshops that have helped with that kind of thing. Um, and yeah, it's it's just different. But I love the entire thing. Like I love everything about it. I love the everything about the create uh creating um and letting your own whatever journey you're on, letting that sort of like sell yourself, you know. Well, that's good. That's really good. I like I like the fact that you love it, you know. Um, I know delving into the creative side, especially as, you know, as we as adults, sometimes we're kind of lulled out of that creative space or that, um, imaginative state, you know, and we lose that along the way. So, when we're going back to do some of these projects, it's like, oh my gosh, I got to use something I haven't used in years, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's not it's not easy to do it, but uh that's why that's why, you know, when you start to do it, you understand why uh you know, I'm like, damn. Well, that's why like like that's why Titanic works or something, right? you know, you know, I'm like somebody made this even that's non-fiction as well, but there's like a fictional tale associated with. My point is though, the um intertwining of the story, you know, I'm like this is why this story makes a lot of sense and this is why people um identify with these characters, you know, like that's where you can look at those things and then take it back to what you're doing. Yeah. and see, okay, what can I do to help myself get to this level, right? You know, where how can I develop um a story where somebody cares as much about said protagonist as they do about Jack and Rose, right? Exactly. Yes. And and and that's the the the challenge. It really is. No matter what you're writing, even if you're writing poetry, it's how can I make if I'm writing about broccoli, how can I make broccoli so exciting that people are going to want to read it? So, it's the same way. It's the same it's the same tactic. It's being so very creative around whatever you're doing, you know, and I'm and and you you're going to love it. Like I know you if you love being being a creator, you're gonna love bringing broccoli or whatever you are, whatever you want to talk about suburbia to this beautiful light. I I you know, you're going to love it. You're going to really love it. So, I'm excited about your project that you're going you're moving forward with because it's never an it's never one thing. It's always more, especially when you're true creative. You know, it started out as one thing and then six months later it was something different. always and then now I I I think I have a good handle on where it is but then again I could be incorrect and it could not be um you know until you hit that finish line you know you don't really know where it's going so I'm looking forward to it and um that's good good that's great so your book touches um you I'm sorry you wrote about growing up during the aftermath of a civil rights movement Right. Um, how does that experience compare to what you see young black boys going through today in suburbia verbia in America now? Well, it depends on the demographic of the suburban audience that you're referring to. Take where you're from. Take where you're from right now. I've I've seen it in an almost identical space to what I was growing. Well, I shouldn't say identical, but I've seen it in a space where a lot of especially young um burgeoning black uh black teens or or pre-teens um where they kind of feel a little bit of the same sense of confusion that I felt because they even in 2025 they're living in a space where they are the odd person out on a regular basis and don't really quite know how it connects. Um, I think that some of the differences might lie in the fact that a lot of the parents in this day and age um, especially the white parents are much more in tune with the pulse of society in a current space and um, less likely maybe to like alienate some of their African-American counterparts. Gotcha. Gotcha. I didn't see that when I was a kid at really at all. Um, when I was a kid, it was it was a lot of alienation. Um, not I'm not even saying that with it seeming as though that it was an intent to alienate. I think a lot of people just didn't know what to do because they didn't really have the tools to um interact with others who were minorities. So if you have a like hypothetically speaking, if you had a family gathering was, you know, let's say it's 1997 and it's mostly white people and three black kids, right? Those white people aren't used to being around three black kids. So then they don't really know what's okay to say, what's not okay. or I mean even when I say okay, I don't mean that to it's a blanket statement. You know, there there was a lot of individuals who would say things that were off-putting not because they were trying to be racist or crude or or ignorant because they just didn't know. Right. Exactly. So, you know, when we were going through, well, I see we like as a when when I was a kid and going through situations where, you know, people would say like the common thread was, "Oh, well, you talk like a white guy." So, that though if you don't know that's a problematic phrase, right, then you don't say it with any disdain whatsoever, right? Um, so things like that, you know, you hear them, you you heard them all the time and people don't understand that it's like, "Ah, damn. I hear that again." Like it's fucking like it's grading at my Yeah. They don't know that's the case. [Music] People always said that to me, "Are you black?" like like they would ask me they would ask me a question like something about music you know and I was always a reader so I I you know I I I barely listen to music barely you know when I was a pre-teen and they was like are you black you know when I was like yeah I would think so but just because I didn't listen to music and I was reading that was you know the phrase that are you black you know yeah I mean see I love music, but it was always um a question about taste. So, you know, if if I'm listening if I'm listening to like Bone Thugs and Harmony, it's like, okay, that's what we thought you would listen to, right? Exactly. But if I turn around and listen to Ace of Bass, they're listen, all of it has levels, and you know this, Justin, all of it has these levels that you know, it's crazy. He's like, "Okay, now we go to that was the next level. Okay, so you now you're listening to Cuz I then I would listen to jazz. Like you never heard of, you know, blah blah blah." Like no. And they were like, "Well, are are you really black?" You know, like where have you been? Like, and I really can't say anything much more than that, you know? It's like I've been here. Yeah, those questions and critiques were hard for me. for someone else maybe. I mean, I can't speak for somebody else, but I'm saying that for myself, I I really had a had a hard time um Yeah. making sense of what that meant when Right. Exactly. And like I said, it's not it's not as if they're being malicious on with with with malicious intent, right? You know, it's just that they they that's all they know and they they're like they're just as confused as we are, right? you know, they're just as confused as we are. So, it's like I'm trying to understand, you know, you look like me, you sort of sound like me, but you don't have these qualifiers, these tick marks, you know, right? And it's difficult for them. And then I guess as you get older, you kind of figure out, okay, you don't have to be this way, you know, the the Yeah. as I grew up and I I mean as high school kind of continued and u I know I didn't cover in the book but I I didn't cover like college or anything like that but um right I I might in the future. Those were the times when I was really able to say I don't care what the world thinks or the world that I don't care where the world wants to place me. I will place myself where I want to be placed. Yeah. Um, which is difficult when you're navigating, you know, adolescence, I guess, right? Yeah, for sure. For sure. Because, you know, you got to still listen to your parents. Yeah. And not only that, like, you know, you still got to listen to your friends, you still got to listen to your teacher, you got and you got all these other things in the middle. So, that's that's a lot going on. So, I could have I think I could have cared less about [Music] teacher and like friend interaction back then. Did you? Okay. I I could have I I didn't I think I could have. Yeah. Yeah. Um in hindsight, I wish I wish I had been more like I don't give a shit kind of attitude. Exactly. Yeah. But that's, you know, that's hindsight. And I at like 9, 10, 11 years old, I wasn't really equipped for that. Uh but I wish I had been. Yeah. You know, so yeah. And which goes right into the question I was going to ask you. So your book touches on a little bit of mental health and the quiet struggles boys face as a man now. How do you care for your own mental wellness? And what lessons do you wish younger Justin had heard? Um, I wish, like I just said, I wish I had I wish I had been able to embrace uh my differences back then, right? As opposed to what I would say was an attempt at assimilation. M um I am not an assimilative type of individual and I think if I had known that earlier it would have helped me a lot right it would have helped me a lot in school it probably would have helped me in sports um but you know we can't change I can't change that so as a piece of analysis I think about about it though. You know, I think about the fact that I wish that could have happened. Um, I actually wrote a poem recently called A Letter to My Former Self. Um, and it kind of it touches on it basically the premise is like embrace the brilliance that you have, whatever that means for you. And when I say you, you know, so it's it's about, you know, just embrace it. um I didn't have those tools and I didn't really have anyone who was I guess like trying to shape that part of who I was or those parts of who I was. So it that's when it takes you know these years and years and years and then we develop into who we who we are. Um, so yeah, I mean I wish I could have embraced those things earlier and embraced the idiosyncrasies that I would say are odd about myself. I wish I had embraced them and let them be free as opposed to trying to contain them. Right. It's a hard job. It's very hard job. Yeah, it's almost impossible. So yeah. Yes, it's it's not almost it's possible. It's impossible. It comes out somewhere. But do you think we ever stop being shaped by our teenage friendships? I know you talk about that. Do you think we ever stop being shaped by our teenage um friendships or does does the early relationships still whisper through the choices we make today? That's a really interesting question. Um, I guess it depends on the person. Um, I mean, I I have become in my adult life, I've become much more of a loner than I used to be as a human. So the the goals like the friendship goals I had, the relationship goals I had as a teen are almost like non-existent in terms to how in terms of how I how I operate today. So for me the like the teenage me is kind of gone. Gotcha. Um, but I I can't say that definitively with respect to other people. You know, that's just who I am. You know, I I've learned that I work better in isolation. You know, when I'm when I'm by myself, I find myself having um heightened levels of peace. I don't want to give that up, you know? Right. So, um but the teenage me wasn't like that. Right. Okay. The teenage me wanted to have, you know, have 10 friends that I could call Friday night and say like, "Hey guys, what are you up to? You know, what are you doing?" Um, the new me doesn't care at all about that. Right. So, so do you think do you think your spirit has grown up from that point? you, you know, learn some because, you know, we all have those like those spirits that we maybe our teenager hasn't grown up and we have to, you know, be a parent to that that child. Do you think you've grown your teenager up enough that you you can work alone now per se? Yeah. I wouldn't say the term is like grown up. I would say it's just like an evolution of my personal Okay. you know, for me as a person, um, right? Because if somebody still like, you know, wants to live that life, that's cool. Like that's not bad, right? Any problem with that whatsoever. And if I were to stay like that, that would be fine. It just isn't me anymore, you know? So, but you're more evolving right now and that teenagers has evolved with you. Yeah. And it's not even a teenager. That's like more like my 20s and even in my 30s, you know. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. You know, I was a social butterfly. Now I'm I stay at home and I watch movies and write. Well, that's a different Well, let's just say that's different because when you get into that mode and their creative side is really um working with your spiritual side, it's, you know, that's a whole different area. You have to have that solitude. That solitude is so very necessary. Yeah. It's and it's like you can't get out of it sometimes. No. No, you can't. So, you just stay there and create. It'll let you know when it's over, right? And I'm and I'm okay with that though, you know. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, give us some stats on what Perfect Strangers, you know, what you know what you've done, you know, um as far as you know, how many podcasts you've been on, you know, how many sales, how far your sales has gone up, you know, what your I know you have other endeavors. Um, and tell us about, you know, your new podcast that you're just embarking on. We'd love to hear it. Um, well, let me think. How many podcast have I been on since I started? Well, this is the second one with you. So, right. You've been on more. No, no, I know. I know. I'm saying like it's two with you. Uh, I've probably been on about eight to nine podcasts. Uh, I have I would think more, but I would think more, but okay. You could be correct. I don't want to like overshoot. You know, I've been watching you. I think you've been on more. I have one coming up in an hour and a half tonight, actually. Okay. So, yeah, you're doing well. You're doing well. And they're very, you know, very they're very um, you know, um, meaty. They you you give a lot of information, which is great, you know, which is really great. I'm glad you think that. Um, yeah. Yeah, you do. So yeah, I mean I'm continuing to move in that direction. Uh you know, just kind of like trying to continue moving um increasing my media portfolio, you know. Gotcha. Uh get out there. I speak to as many people as I possibly can, make connections with great people like yourself, you know, who are, you know, doing their thing, moving and shaking, moving up the the social ladder or the um the media ladder. Um, yeah. Uh, I I've got a appearance in Texas coming up in the fall for uh for Perfect Strangers. Um, right. And, you know, continuing like I said earlier to just continue the the proliferation of the media portfolio, you know, right? You know, writing poetry. Um, my next more significant project is a novella called The Overlord, which is about uh a um it's a science fiction tale about Sierra Leone in the late um 18th century. Um nice. Yeah, I'm really trying to push that to agents. I've got a few leads already. Okay. Yeah, that's uh that's that's next up. Um, so you know, yeah, just keeping the creative bones and the creative muscles and juices flowing. Um, I never want to stop that. It's it's difficult because in this in this in this field, you know, you know, sometimes the slightest rejection can make you feel like your world is over. And I mean, it's true. It's true. No, you're right. You're very true. It's very true. There was a time, I think it was like last week, when I went from a period where there was an agent that I reached out to was like, "Hey, I love this this idea. I want to hear more." The next day, a different agent said, "Thank you for your submission. I don't want to read this further at all." And and they said those words. Oh my gosh. I was like, "Yeah, cut me." Yeah, he's cut my Yeah, that's that was it. Yeah, that was really bad. Fuck, man. Like, I guess I suck at writing and I guess this whole thing is just stupid and no one's going to like and never mind the other person that said I would love to hear anything about your Never mind that person. It was I was totally dejected. Yes. Then I like did a I I thought about it a little bit more and I was like, you know what? Some people won't even read past the fact that you said this is a novella, not a novel. So, she could have easily been like that word alone could have made her say nope. Yeah. No. You know, there's a thousand things that could happen that, you know, and I was like, you know what? You need to stop acting like this and you know, like just Yeah. relish. You know how many nos I had? You're just starting. How many nos I I received? Oh my gosh. I I've got rejected by Billy Graham's library. Okay. I was like I was rejected by them. That cut my whole soul. I was like it really cut my whole soul. I couldn't believe it. I was like Billy Grims had known to me. It was like really bad. Yeah. I had a nomination like the perfect strangers book was nominated for um best non-fiction piece. Okay. In Virginia by the library of Virginia. Okay. Um but it was like it was nominated by a reader. So someone submitted it as like a nomination, right? And um so then it was like, well, we'll let you know the beginning of summer if you qualify for our final gala in September. And so every day I'm like, I didn't get another I didn't get the nomination, Justin. Just the fact that you were nominated can be like a just like a push forward. Like just the fact you're nominated, did they give you that's that's great. Like a someone who read your book nominated you. That That's That's so cool. But if I don't make the finals, then I'm going to be mad about it. No, you can't be mad, Justin. That just think about that. Somebody who read your book nominated you. Didn't you didn't do it. They did it. That's great. Well, you're right. I'm just saying how I think about it. So, I I know you did. If I don't get a letter in the next three weeks saying that it's been a finalist, then I'm gonna be like, "Screw the Virginia Library." I know. That's Yeah, I know. It It does bother you when you're when you're, you know, but I I just lean on the with all the nose that I've ever had. Um I just lean on, okay, that wasn't for them. this is for maybe someone else. And then when I started getting the yeses, I was like, "Okay, okay." You know, so you'll get them, you know, just keep plugging away. As my mom said, the more you do, the more outcome you get. So, yeah, that's very true. Very true. Yeah, you get that. So, Justin, thank you for not just writing Perfect Strangers, but for living its message and then showing us what comes after the last page. This episode reminds us audience that healing is layered, identity evolves, and revisiting the past can be the very act that frees us into the future. To our listeners, if you haven't yet grabbed a copy of perfect strangers, it's more than a memoir. It's a mirror for the memory for the me from your memories to your mindset and for humanity, all of suburbia. So follow Justin to stay in touch with what's next because I know he's on Instagram. That's where I follow him and because something tells me the best is yet to come. As always, I'm Edna White and this is Keeping It Real on Purpose and my esteemed guest Justin Molo. We're saying bye for now. Keep keep showing up and keep being real. Bye for now.