Do I Have To Pay Back My Boss?

Brought to you by CHM, a budget-friendly, faith-based alternative to health insurance. chministries.org slash budget. I'm wondering whether or not I should give back a prorated amount of money that was a lump sum given to me by a pretty new employer based on the fact that I have pretty much nailed down a new job, um, and whether or not I should give any of that back. So that's what's going on. So you got, you got, you got paid a signing bonus to come with them. Less structured than that. Uh, basically what happened is we, during the negotiations for this new job, we agreed on a salary amount. We walked away. The next day they called me and said that for internal company politic reasons, they didn't want to put that amount of salary on paper. So what they were going to do is put me on paper for a lower salary and a third party tangentially related to the business would give me a lump sum roughly equivalent to 33% of my annual income, um, just upfront. And those two things combined amounted to the amount that we agreed on for an annual salary. How long were you there? I have only been working here for four months. Uh, there is not a shred of paperwork that has been wedded with ink that would legally require me to give this money back. Um, but did you handshake and say you would, yes, I did. Well, I didn't say I would, but I did handshake and say I would work for them. And I'm having some mixed feelings about leaving so soon. Why are you leaving? So soon? Uh, because I have, um, it was somewhat unexpected, but a, a job hiring window opened for a, uh, a job that it's kind of the Cadillac job in the industry in which I work, um, within three to five years, I would roughly triple my current income. Uh, and it's just too much of a improvement to my family's quality of life to say no. Sure. And you've already accepted the new role. Essentially. Yes. What does essentially mean? Yes. Pending a training dates, um, is what that means. So I don't know how long I'll be working at the current, how much was, how much was the lump sum? It was $50,000. And what did you do with it? Well, if you're serious about budgeting, you can't ignore healthcare for most families. It's one of the biggest line items y'all you can cut subscriptions and eating out, but if you're still stuck with a massive premium every month, it's going to be stressful. Now, Christian healthcare ministries is different. It's not insurance. It's believers sharing each other's medical bills. Yes. And the best part program start at just $115 a month. So go to ch ministries.org slash budget and use code Ramsey for 50% credit towards your first month. How much was the lump sum? It was $50,000. And what did you do with it? Well, uh, we still have roughly half, uh, my family and I are still in baby step two. So we used a, uh, about half of it to, uh, clean up two car loans that we had. Uh, so now we're at three, except for our mortgage, uh, but we did chew through a decent chunk of it, but I have about half and, um, about 12 and a half thousand dollars of that is obviously earmarked for taxes. So. How, okay. It was a part of your salary. It was such a convoluted way of doing it, but the bottom line is that was a part of your salary. They just chose to pay you a different way. So repaid it. So how much of the 50,000, uh, over a course of 12 months, how, how much would that represent for over how many months? I've been working for the company for four months. I'm sorry, but was that for a year to make up the difference for one year? Yes. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. That's what I'm trying to figure out. $4,000 a month. Okay. Well, $4,200 a month. Okay. All right. And so, and you've been there for months, that's 16 of it. And you got to pay taxes on this. Yes. Um, but they didn't, uh, there, there was no, uh, like if we move someone from another state and we hire them, we pay X number of dollars, call it $10,000 in moving expenses, uh, our employment agreement requires they repay that if they leave within 90 days, correct. And that is pretty standard in the industry. However, I, I signed nothing to that effect whatsoever. Uh, and they, they, and there was no discussion of, if you leave, you've got to pay this back, but not particularly. No, it's just, it's just, you feel, you feel funny about taking the money and then not being there the whole 12 months, what was going to happen at the end of 12 months, by the way? Well, so, but one thing we did discuss was that, you know, that, that this third party would help make up the difference every year and no, not every year. Uh, so when, one thing that we did discuss was that they have to basically allow me to do outside work to make up the, that difference, you know? So basically I had about 12 months, not to go to my new position. No, I'm talking about if you had stayed there 12 months after 12 months, your pay goes down $50,000. Uh, yeah, that's correct. Yeah. From that primary employer. Wacky that you took the deal. Yeah. It's kind of a crazy deal. Um, I have had a decent amount of success with side work and making up that. Yeah. But that's irrelevant to this. This is like, you know, we don't want to tell the other people that work here. So we're not going to put it on paper. This just got, this guy has a bad smell over the whole thing. It's pretty, it's pretty weird. I make no bones about that. Not on you, but on them. It's just strange. And a third party has to come to the table. This is very strange. So, um, third party was like a relative. Yeah. I, um, okay. The best way to answer a business ethics question is what would you want someone to do if the roles were reversed? Treat other people like you want to be treated. And so just switch roles and try to put yourself in their shoes and say, all right, I hired this guy, I gave him 50 grand. He worked here four months and he took off for a better job. How would you want to be treated? I would probably, if I were, if I switched and tried to look at it through their weird lens, but they have a weird lens, but I'm trying to sit over there in their shoes. I think they're gonna, I think they're going to have, uh, not a moral expectation or an, I don't think you breached any ethics. I don't think you did anything wrong. If you kept the money, um, you know, they learn a lesson on how not to structure deals because this was a stupid, but way to do this thing. So, uh, but especially with nothing inked on it, but, um, I, um, how would you want to be treated if the roles were reversed and that that's the kind of person you want to be regardless of the kind of people that they are and so, yeah, I'm going to, I'm probably, if I'm switching roles, I'm probably going to write them a check for something and then you just decide, maybe it's the 25 and you got to cover the taxes or whatever. I don't know. You got, you know, you got tax problem out of this too. That's mixed in there, but I'm probably going to go, okay, I worked here four months and I got to pay taxes on all this and there's, here's what's left out of that and so here's what I'm going to do and I'm not obligated to do anything, but I'm going to do this just as a, because it's the kind of person I am, I'm probably going to do something. Yeah. That's why I was asking that question of how is that built in so that we can come up with a number. So we've done four months service out of the 15. That's where I was going is to 16 of the, you know, 17,000 of the 50. So that's 33 left. He's got 25 in the account, but he's been taxed on 50. That's the other issue. He's not netted out and I don't want to pay them back my tax money. Yeah. That's when I owe taxes and I'm not going to do it in a lump sum. I'm going to, here's an idea. What if you said 50 minus tax or 4,200 a month minus taxes and did it that way? That feels I'm, so what I'm trying to get to is a, is a good formula that makes sense of taxes. Yeah. The taxes they lost. Yeah. Cause they essentially prepaid him. Is that correct? That's how we're looking at that. It's a prepay on work to be done, but they didn't, you only did four months. So I would feel that way too. Yeah. I, and, and I don't think again, I'm, I wouldn't throw darts at you, whatever you do, because I think there's squirrely and, and I think that this is the whole thing's got a smell on it. That's weird. Yeah. And so, um, you know, they get, they get what's coming to them on that. But if I answer an ethics question, honestly, I have to get a tender heart and have to step on the other side of the desk and I have to say, how would I want to be treated if I was sitting over there and how would I expect to be treated? And you know, that, that's, that's the thing. So we had a guy working for us when the internet first started and cold fusion was the language. And I spent $5,000 on a cold fusion class and another $4,000 to send him to class in Oklahoma city. And it was in the early days. That was a lot of money for us in the early days. He came home and of course, everything's blowing up, you know, brand new internet, right? And a guy offered him $50,000 more a year, three weeks after he got home from class to go to work over there more than I could pay or would pay. And he said, I got it. He said, I got to come in and tell you about this, but I can't take it because you just invested all this in me. It's why I got the job offer. And I said, yeah, you got to take it. So I let him lose with nothing. And I didn't ask for anything back, but that was, you know, again, how do I want to be treated? Yeah, he handled it up front. Christian Healthcare Ministries can save your family hundreds of dollars on healthcare every month. Learn more at chministries.org slash budget.